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Old 04-19-2014, 11:14 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Call_Me_Ishmael View Post
And most conspiracy theorists I know don't believe there's any such thing as incompetence.

For whatever reason, they believe that the world is run by brilliant but evil criminal master minds and when tragedy strikes, it's the masterminds who are behind it.
Yes, I think the basic problem is a need to attribute spectacular effects to spectacular causes. Rather than obvious everyday causes such as laziness, incompetence or irrational behaviour.

To take an example, when Princess Di died in a car crash in 1997, the conspiracy theories started immediately and are still going strong in some quarters. For some, there was an unwillingness to accept that one of the most famous people in the world could die in exactly the same sort of pointless way as anyone else. There had to be a 'special cause'.

Given this basic need to generate a 'special story', the next stage is to find anomalies in the 'official' version of events. And sure enough, if someone looks hard enough, they'll find them. The anomalies may not be of the slightest significance, but industrious brains will get busy weaving them together into some alternative version of events.

Then there's a little industry of rent-an-experts that are always on hand to lend a bit of credibility: ex-military guys, maverick engineers and scientists and so on. Usually, if you look into their backgrounds there will be a history of strange beliefs and outlandish statements. They're usually conspiracy serial offenders.

The biggest culprit though, is the internet. Anyone can publish a website. Anyone can put together a video for youtube. There are no editorial checks, and the page rank achieved on google is in no sense connected with the truthfulness of the information presented on a site. This democratisation of publishing has allowed the propagation of bullshit at unprecedented speed.

Conspiracy theories continue to fascinate me as a social phenomenon.
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Old 04-19-2014, 01:13 PM   #22
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Wow, I sound like a massive retard in that mammoth comment from last year, just read it back for the first time.
I've grown up allot since then, even though it wasn't long ago.
Looked into things better and thus forming a better opinion.

I'll offer my latest opinion.
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Old 04-19-2014, 02:24 PM   #23
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Yes, I think the basic problem is a need to attribute spectacular effects to spectacular causes. Rather than obvious everyday causes such as laziness, incompetence or irrational behaviour.
That's true in many cases, but I think somewhat of a generalization as to why people question or believe in these theories.
I think first we need to distinguish what actually determines you a "conspiracy theorist".

In my opinion you can question government and believe they're up to no good, without being a conspiracy theorist.
David Icke is a conspiracy theorist. Akala is not

Quote:
To take an example, when Princess Di died in a car crash in 1997, the conspiracy theories started immediately and are still going strong in some quarters. For some, there was an unwillingness to accept that one of the most famous people in the world could die in exactly the same sort of pointless way as anyone else. There had to be a 'special cause'.

Given this basic need to generate a 'special story', the next stage is to find anomalies in the 'official' version of events. And sure enough, if someone looks hard enough, they'll find them. The anomalies may not be of the slightest significance, but industrious brains will get busy weaving them together into some alternative version of events.
Again, that's some people.

Quote:
Then there's a little industry of rent-an-experts that are always on hand to lend a bit of credibility: ex-military guys, maverick engineers and scientists and so on. Usually, if you look into their backgrounds there will be a history of strange beliefs and outlandish statements. They're usually conspiracy serial offenders.
That's true imo.

Quote:
The biggest culprit though, is the internet. Anyone can publish a website. Anyone can put together a video for youtube. There are no editorial checks, and the page rank achieved on google is in no sense connected with the truthfulness of the information presented on a site. This democratisation of publishing has allowed the propagation of bullshit at unprecedented speed.

Conspiracy theories continue to fascinate me as a social phenomenon.
I agree with that as well, although we can also see it from the other side.

Of course, there IS a large group of people doing exactly what you say, but you'll also see a ton of individuals who are into researching conspiracy theories resenting those type of people,
Because they make any credible research they're doing seem ludicrous.

For example, I can't count how many times I've seen ridiculous youtube video's on how there's a "devils face" in the smoke from pictures of 9/11.
Or similar pointless video's like that.

So when someone comes across those video's, they make a gross generalization that ALL people who are interested in theories arguing against the official 9/11 story, are the same.

More people see the video's that claim a plane never actually hit the twin towers, and that it was a hologram,
and then place the people who are coming up with intelligent theories, (most notably the thermite that was found at the bass)
In that same group. As imbeciles or nut jobs...Or both.

Who are the biggest conspiracy theorists?

David Icke and Alex Jones.

2 men who have made idiots of themselves on more than one occasion, with outlandish predictions that never came true, or in Alex's case, ranting and raving live on the BBC.
Then the most famous celebrity who believes 9/11 is an inside job, is charlie sheen.
A truly messed up guy who's a crack addict.

What's worse is this.
Take David Icke for example.
He discusses 9/11, but also believes reptilians rule the planet, so is instantly then grouped with all the 9/11 guys, so then a generalization makes them ALL look insane.

Like I said, the most outlandish theories get the media attention, like the reptilian crap.



Now obviously, from my previous posts last year, I look like one of those nut jobs. Because I bought into everything I heard.
It wasn't until I looked into it more and learned to separate the crap from the plausible.




Current views, if anyone is interested.

I still believe 9/11 was an inside job. Too many inconstancies for me, and a clear motive.

I believe the JFK assassination was dodgy.
Numerous recreations of the shooting have shown the physical impossibilities of the official story.
Smaller things I thought were fishy too, one of which being JFK's final speech hours before his assassination, as he, in his own words said, "I wish help in alerting the American people ,
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence:
On infiltration instead of invasion
On subversion instead of elections
On intimidation instead of free choice"

Thought that was interesting.



I guess those are the two main ones.


The "Illuminati" or whatever you want to call it I believe to be massively overblown in the media.
Especially in music, which is the industry I work in and am training for.
People would rather think about Jay Z being in the illuminati, which I believe is crap, than think about real world issues.


To end, This short video pretty much sums up my views now.
Political rapper immortal technique. Very intelligent gentleman.

I really recommend you guys watch it, please do.


Allot of these conspiracy theories go too far.
Juts because you believe 9/11 was an inside job, doesn't mean you should be put into a box and portrayed as a nut job, or even a "conspiracy theorist"

I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

I question corporations. Because at the end of the day, Like tech says, all these secret societies, illuminati, whatever you want to call it, are just corporations. And you don't have to look any further than that. No further than reality and what you see around you. It's not secret.
All about money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqdNG1YX0kM&hl=en&fs=1&">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqdNG1YX0kM&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344">



PS: As far as the question that the thread was for, I believe conspiracy theories are getting more and more popular everyday, with the growth of the internet.
And no, I don't think that's a good thing, because there's allot of bull shit out there, and as I said, it seems those are the things people focus on.

People would rather look into how Lady Gaga is a supposed devil worshiper, than the corruption of the banking system.
That doesn't mean you have an open mind, it means you've been indoctrinated and brainwashed into believing you do, as the media continues to pump out the Illuminati craze.

Last edited by LindenGarcia18; 04-19-2014 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 04-19-2014, 03:08 PM   #24
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Something else I find dodgy is the bilderberg group, and bohemian grove.

Something not only do I find seedy, but very interesting also.
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Old 04-19-2014, 05:05 PM   #25
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I know that this wasn't part of the original question (in reference to feelings of US citizens) but as far as Romanians and Moldovans are concerned, I'd say that AT LEAST 90 percent of people out here believe that the 9-11 attacks were some sort of conspiracy, although nobody can really agree on which one and very few have a good argument for their particular theory.

I don't know who brought it up earlier, but I agree that a lot of this sentiment has to do with overall distrust of the government, and when you've had governments like these guys have had governments, it's easy to see how they could assume that other governments are like theirs and continue to assume thereafter.

My personal (US) opinion comes down to a very basic idea: either you feel that the Bush administration was, at best, slightly incompetent in the handling of the 9-11 attacks (and really, most international crises) or you feel that the administration was somehow competent enough to have masterminded the greatest and most horrific conspiracy in US history to the point that we're all still debating it. The latter seems the least likely to me.
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Old 04-19-2014, 05:37 PM   #26
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I don't know who brought it up earlier, but I agree that a lot of this sentiment has to do with overall distrust of the government, and when you've had governments like these guys have had governments, it's easy to see how they could assume that other governments are like theirs and continue to assume thereafter.

My personal (US) opinion comes down to a very basic idea: either you feel that the Bush administration was, at best, slightly incompetent in the handling of the 9-11 attacks (and really, most international crises) or you feel that the administration was somehow competent enough to have masterminded the greatest and most horrific conspiracy in US history to the point that we're all still debating it. The latter seems the least likely to me.
Well for starters, if it was an inside job, Bush had nothing to do with it.
There's no way he'd have had the intelligence to do it.

The big things for me with 9/11 that point toward an inside job, are the theories factual basis.

Allot of these conspiracy theories do just that, theorize. Giving little evidence.
To me that's pretty pointless.


With 9/11 as btb mentioned, you have stuff like the thermite being found at the base of the tower after it's collapse.
Physical impossibilities like the manner and speed of the collapse, the fact that jet fuel doesn't melt steel (which is where the thermite would come in), Building 7 being "pulled" to the ground for no reason, Black boxes from the planes vanishing, the governments scramblers being randomly sent off on a training exercise during the events, etc;

Just the thermite alone is enough. There couldn't be any other explanation for it to be there in my books.

Perhaps even more obvious is the pentagon crash that happened simultaneously.

After a bowing 747 crashes into the side of the pentagon, the only damage was a small, 15 foot wide circular hole.
Where were the holes from where the wings and tail section smashed into the building?


There's definitely allot to it in my opinion, It's very interesting.
Maybe I'm wrong about it all, maybe I'm right. All I say is I question it and am interested in it. And my opinions on it stem from that.

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Old 04-19-2014, 08:38 PM   #27
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I dont trust the government. Some people claim that "oh a few holes dont matter, the people dont need to be bothered with details."

Bullshit. The government is in place to maintain order, not fucking control people. I have the right to know whats going on.

I really haven't looked enough to comment on conspiracy theories, although for multiple reasons I dont believe in aliens. Area 51 is a "secret" AFB.
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