Rate of Drug-Free Muscle Gain

[BigFiveFive]

Originally Posted by dmaipa

I understand what's going on in here with the debate over natural potential. I also see both sides to it, casey butt's research is very interesting and does show interesting facts. And I understand what Big is saying as well. The way I see it is although I know that it is very hard to reach your personal natural potential, I'm not one to set limits on myself. I've read the research but I havent figured out exactly what my natural potential is because i honestly don't really care.


Keep it that way and it will take you far my friend, don't let any person or research place limits on you!

just wondering - according to research has anyone ever reached their natural potential? is it even physically possible? or is it something that you have to constantly work for and never totally reach, like a dog chasing its own tail?

Anythings possible, look at the genetics out there, Rico's legs belong in the IFBB, as do Cordovas arms and shoulders. They don't even bat an eye to limits and "potential" just outworking everyone else.

These guys, these pros, as humble as they are, LOOK for people to waste time on research imposing limits man, KEEP PUSHING!

[BigFiveFive]

And this is where I have grown as a young competitor, humbleness. Mine right now is headed out the window with this thread, so I am done here.

BE ABOUT IT!

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by BigFiveFive

I understand completely, and it's good for people to know their limits if they chose so, but those people will never be champions.

Incorrect. Nothing could be further from the truth, and from reality.

Very few reach limits. It's a goal, not a limitation. 99.9% of natural bodybuilders won't hit their potentials. One only needs to analyze history to see this is the truth. Potential maxes are not only championship level, these maxes are on par with the greatest natural bodybuilders of all time.

If they reach their limits they will be as big as the greatest natural champions to ever walk the earth. If you even come close to your potential you will be champion material. Heck 10 pounds from potential will win most shows if conditioning is there.

These numbers are based on 300 natural champions over the last 60 years. These are the champions.

Again, you are commenting without studying the research. There is nothing wrong with wanting to succeed, but to comment that those who understand and respect limits will never be champions to me is very disappointing.

I work with champions, and none of them surpass these projections.

I strongly disagree with your comments. People who aim for these numbers will be the champions.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by dmaipa

just wondering - according to research has anyone ever reached their natural potential? is it even physically possible? or is it something that you have to constantly work for and never totally reach, like a dog chasing its own tail?

The only ones right around their potentials are the genetic elites. The champions.

If they are beat it's by only a very small hair...and not by pounds and pounds. Not a single one of these champions has bested their potentials by a noteworthy amount.

The formula is so accurate that is predicted most champions max weight within 0.1 pounds.

Check out the article D:

The WeighTrainer - Your Maximum Muscular Bodyweight and Measurements

Bodybuilder Actual Weight
(lbs) Predicted Weight
(lbs) Max Bulked Weight
(lbs) Predicted Body Fat
(%)
Clarence Ross 198 198.1 206.0 9.2
John Farbotnik 195 194.9 202.7 9.5
George Eiferman 195 194.9 202.7 10.5
Reg Park 214 214.0 222.9 7.9
John Grimek 208 208.0 216.3 11.3
Jack Delinger 195 194.9 202.7 12.0
Steve Reeves 214 214.0 222.6 9.0
Current World Champ. "A"
(pre-contest) 170 170.0 176.8 4.5
Current World Champ. "B"
(off-season, not bulked) 168 168.0 174.7 8.3
Current Nat. 1st Place "A" (off-season, bulking) 233 224.0 233.0 14.1
Current Nat. 1st Place "B"
(off-season, not bulked) 185.2 185.2 192.6 9.8

[Wlfdg]

Originally Posted by BigFiveFive

...And I don't do data bruh.

Aren't you a S&C Coach? If you're trusting only anecdotal evidence aren't you concerned your players are missing out?

[BendtheBar]

Let me break this down as simply as possible:

--300 natural champions from the last 60 years were analyzed.
--These lifters are the genetic gold standard.
--From this extensive study, an incredibly accurate formula was derived that can provide natural lifters with a genetic ceiling to shoot for.

No natural champion that I know of has exceeded their potentials by more than an extremely trivial amount of weight.

Over the last 60 years there has been NO improvement in how much muscle naturals are capable of carrying.

Natural potential is not a function of performance, meaning that it can't be changed by hard work. The best naturals of all time have tried and failed. Natural potential is a function of physiology, and no amount of performance/training can alter this reality.

Whether you want to choose to ignore this information is your choice. Some condemn it as limiting. It is not presented as such. It is meant to provide a goal to shoot for. If you achieve this goal you will be one of the greatest naturals of all time.

[dmaipa]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

The only ones right around their potentials are the genetic elites. The champions.

If they are beat it's by only a very small hair...and not by pounds and pounds. Not a single one of these champions has bested their potentials by a noteworthy amount.

The formula is so accurate that is predicted most champions max weight within 0.1 pounds.

Check out the article D:

The WeighTrainer - Your Maximum Muscular Bodyweight and Measurements

Bodybuilder Actual Weight
(lbs) Predicted Weight
(lbs) Max Bulked Weight
(lbs) Predicted Body Fat
(%)
Clarence Ross 198 198.1 206.0 9.2
John Farbotnik 195 194.9 202.7 9.5
George Eiferman 195 194.9 202.7 10.5
Reg Park 214 214.0 222.9 7.9
John Grimek 208 208.0 216.3 11.3
Jack Delinger 195 194.9 202.7 12.0
Steve Reeves 214 214.0 222.6 9.0
Current World Champ. "A"
(pre-contest) 170 170.0 176.8 4.5
Current World Champ. "B"
(off-season, not bulked) 168 168.0 174.7 8.3
Current Nat. 1st Place "A" (off-season, bulking) 233 224.0 233.0 14.1
Current Nat. 1st Place "B"
(off-season, not bulked) 185.2 185.2 192.6 9.8

I'll check this article out BTB..thanks

I respect your view on this matter

[Wlfdg]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

Some condemn it as limiting. It is not presented as such. It is meant to provide a goal to shoot for. If you achieve this goal you will be one of the greatest naturals of all time.

How bad would it suck to be stuck with physiques like these?

[BigFiveFive]

Originally Posted by Wlfdg

Aren't you a S&C Coach? If you're trusting only anecdotal evidence aren't you concerned your players are missing out?

Not at all, I don't need data to teach kids how to squat, I do that every Monday.

[Wlfdg]

Originally Posted by BigFiveFive

Not at all, I don't need data to teach kids how to squat, I do that every Monday.

You don't design programs?