Rate of Drug-Free Muscle Gain

[Wlfdg]

Very interesting

[MC]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

Here's another way of looking at gains.

Each of us have a natural potential (from a normalize, non-underweight starting point). This could be 25 pounds, 30, or 35 pounds of muscle.

Consider your potential a glass of water.

The faster you gain, the less you have in the glass to gain in future years.

Potential is potential. You can't will yourself into a greater potential (a larger glass of water), nor can you will yourself into gaining 10-20 more pounds than the great natural bodybuilders of the last 60 years.

Again, this information is presented to help naturals paint a reasonable picture. This forum will never espouse the steroid magazine bullsh*t notion that gains for naturals are unlimited. Life (and the body) doesn't work that way.

Furthermore, I will not allow naturals on this forum to be mislead into believing they can gain 10-20 more pounds than the greater natural bodybuilders of all time. Some of you may not like this, but I will not allow steroid magazine nonsense to be propagated here.

It all makes total sense BTB. The additional nugget (that I think supports the research and argument) is the testosterone factor.

Each of us only produces but so much. And based on how much testosterone you can naturally produce, you can gain and maintain muscle to a certain extent. Above and beyond that, you have to artificially increase testosterone production in order to gain muscle beyond your natural limits.

I haven't seen any research to this point, but it would make sense to me that individuals who slightly exceed these averages may naturally produce, on average, higher levels of testosterone.

[BigFiveFive]

Too many things play a part in genetic potential. Am I saying a natural bodybuilder can get 250-300+ lbs stage weight? No, but there is a huge difference in the appearance of the weight we come in at.

And the rate of muscle gain has a lot of factors that mess with that as well.

Look at Josh Hyaduck, one of the top "young" natural pros. Kids been on a BULK-CUT workout/diet plan since he was 14! FOURTEEN!!!!!!!! Kid prolly hadent even hit puberty yet and he knew what a PCF breakdown was and was eating 4-6 meals a day smashing weights, because the only thing he does... is bodybuild. I know this through personal sources and know people that have hung out with the kid and workedout and talked to him. Not only in those first 4 years (14-18) did he gain stupid amounts of mass, it didn't stop there, kids still growing, at a rapid rate as well. Now he's 23 and entering the prime of his manhood, you don't think he's going to gain more? I bet he does.

[Carl1174]

I would have thought the muscular mass gains form Cassey Butt that BtB is refering to are once the bones, tissue, etc have come to the end of their natural growth. If you added in mass gained whilst still growing naturally (as in before you stop 'growing') then it would put all the tables out of whack.

Carl.

[TitanCT]

Originally Posted by Reinaldo.Gomes

got 6,5 wrists =/

even so, got about 30 pounds within 18 months
with some fat though =/

Originally Posted by Reinaldo.Gomes

Thank god I don't have any pics from that time

I bet you were not skinny as hell when you started, such as I was.
As I posted in my log:

at the height of 1.85m (6feet)

I was:
57,5kg (126.5lbs)

18 months later
72kg (158.4lbs)

I don't think it's that much of a gain when you're speaking of pretty skinny people
I plan on getting as close to 200lbs as I can

30lbs in 18months of muscle and "some fat"?

you are either Fraudin' or Saucin'.

[BigFiveFive]

Originally Posted by TitanCT

30lbs in 18months of muscle and "some fat"?

you are either Fraudin' or Saucin'.

He never stated his age, puberty is one hell of a thing.

[Reinaldo.Gomes]

I was 23 when I started, now I'm 24.
maybe you're not realizing how underweighted I was back then. got about 13pounds in the first 2 months. maybe it's cause a few years ago I had some weight training, but I had no clue about the nutrition role in the whole thing, so it took me 6 months to get 11pounds. needless to say, I lost it all after a few months.
anyway, I know some people who were just as skinny I was, proportionally to their heights, and also got 10 to 15 lbs in the first 3 months. of course gains slowed down quite a bit after that. I see no big deal in that.


edit:
here are some pics I shot yesterday/today (no "before pics" though):

6feet(maybe 6.1, not sure)
158lbs
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

as I said, no big deal, I'm still nowhere near what I want to achieve. still want 45pounds or so.

[BigFiveFive]

I don't doubt you at all man, everyone is different and have different genetics and metabolisms.

All I have to say on the subject is...

Wait til my next offseason, Ill blow those numbers off the charts.

[Abaddon]

Originally Posted by BigFiveFive

He never stated his age, puberty is one hell of a thing.

I agree. My increase is even more unbelievable than that! But I started when I was 19.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by BigFiveFive

Too many things play a part in genetic potential. Am I saying a natural bodybuilder can get 250-300+ lbs stage weight? No, but there is a huge difference in the appearance of the weight we come in at. Not only in those first 4 years (14-18) did he gain stupid amounts of mass, it didn't stop there, kids still growing, at a rapid rate as well. Now he's 23 and entering the prime of his manhood, you don't think he's going to gain more? I bet he does.

I bet he gains little. No disrespect meant.

Kyle you need to study the research a bit more. The research by Casey Butt was on the genetic freaks - 300 champions - of the last 60 years.

Sure Josh might gain a few pounds. He's not at his potential yet (that I know of). But no one's going to exceed the best naturals in the history of the sport by 10-20 pounds because of "genetics." The top level genetic potential numbers are the genetic freaks.

Set aside these charts and study natural potential....

http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/rea...surements.html

Kyle I respect you, but you are putting down serious and extensive research that actually is helping people form realistic goals on natural lifting, all because you don't want it to be true. Casey Butt is far from the only man on this planet that has studied natural potential. And they have all arrived at about the same numbers.

No one will beat these 300 natural champions by 10-20 pounds or more of muscle. This is an insult to these champions, and to the natural realm in general. These champions were genetic elites, and trained with amazing intensity.