Chaos and Pain Discussion

[Fazc]

Originally Posted by tank

so it's really jamie failing to acknowledge the existance of phases of lifter's advancement and the need to vary training according to it.

Originally Posted by Tannhauser

So it goes against the grain for me to see specious arguments (to my eyes) promoted with such a lot of shouting down of alternative views. To my mind, that's exactly how HIT gained so much prominence.

I guess I see it as another viewpoint which we as the readers can use in our arsenal. Without polar extremes, we would never settle in the middle.

It's not Jamie's failing at all, in my opinion, he is just relaying what he knows which works. He's just a guy like you or I. He talks of what he knows. I don't believe he's making stuff up. But as the popular cliche goes "everyone is different" we can at least use his polar extreme to give us more choice as to what is suitable and when.

[tank]

ah, i see.

[Off Road]

It all comes down to the individual and what they can tolerate. But there are some general ideas that seem to work for a large percentage of the lifters. I see Hardgainer as a brilliant way for new lifters to start building their base in a safe and structured manner. Beyond that, and intermediate can use Wendler's system to really start working hard, building some volume, and experiment with different assistance and accessory lifts to see where the changes happen. Beyond that it will take a real individualized aproach to get up into the advanced trining. So I see absolutely nothing wrong with taking a chosen path and seeing it through to the next level, and learning from it. But I'm sorry, not everybody is made to be elite just through hard work.

I know for me, I absolutely die if I do too much volume or frequency. I have log books that bear this out with stalled lifts, regressed lifts, and injuries. I've worked very hard to increase my pitiful work capacity to where I can handle the work I am currently doing. But if I bump it up too fast I'm doomed. It's a slow process and 5/3/1 fits the need to a "T", at least for now. it allows me progression, recovery, and direction while I play with other factors to see how it might effect me. Change too many things at once and you can't track what was responsible.

So, I think HIT, HG, 5/3/1, SS, and many other routines have their place along the path. Who knows, C&P may hold a place for me along mine some day, but as I'm getting older, I kind of doubt it.

[LtL]

When I grow up, I want to be as smart as Fazc

LtL

[tank]

me too lol

[Fazc]

It'll all be forgotten in a couple years when senility really kicks in.

[tank]

you can't outlift psychosis

[Off Road]

Found this...

Arthur_Dayne
Jamie Lewis writes in his book:

Guess what the Chinese program is like. Give up? High ****ing intensity, brutal, day long workouts, 6 days a week. Year-round. There's no time for bullshitting about with extended rest periods and abbreviated workouts with the Chinese... they're too busy winning every medal on Earth to bother with Mentzer, Rippetoe, and Stuart McRobert's fear of the ephemeral overtraining boogeyman.

Thoughts?

Rippetoe
This comment refers to the Chinese National Weightlifting Team. Not the demographic I deal with, and not the demographic that actually exists in this country outside the NFL. Not novices, and not any of you. An irrelevant question, therefore.

rpoliactCalisthenics,
Even if none of us are ready for 50 hours of high intensity training every week, doesn't their success imply that perhaps training volume could often be higher than it is?

Rippetoe
Not at all, because their demographic has been distilled from the 1.4 billion Chinese people on the basis of their ability to recover from their programming volume.

[Fazc]

Originally Posted by Off Road

Found this...

Arthur_Dayne
Jamie Lewis writes in his book:

Guess what the Chinese program is like. Give up? High ****ing intensity, brutal, day long workouts, 6 days a week. Year-round. There's no time for bullshitting about with extended rest periods and abbreviated workouts with the Chinese... they're too busy winning every medal on Earth to bother with Mentzer, Rippetoe, and Stuart McRobert's fear of the ephemeral overtraining boogeyman.

Thoughts?

Rippetoe
This comment refers to the Chinese National Weightlifting Team. Not the demographic I deal with, and not the demographic that actually exists in this country outside the NFL. Not novices, and not any of you. An irrelevant question, therefore.

rpoliactCalisthenics,
Even if none of us are ready for 50 hours of high intensity training every week, doesn't their success imply that perhaps training volume could often be higher than it is?

Rippetoe
Not at all, because their demographic has been distilled from the 1.4 billion Chinese people on the basis of their ability to recover from their programming volume.

That is the standard response. In one form or another that exact same thing was said by McRobert, Mentzer, Jones et all. The pro's are on another planet in terms of needs, we can't hope to emulate even on a smaller scale.

What do you think Offroad?

[Off Road]

Originally Posted by Fazc

What do you think Offroad?

I think EVERYBODY can get better. But that includes the elite. And they get better even faster. That's why only about 1% of football players make it to the pros. Life (and genetics) just aint fair, but it is what it is.