Increasing Strength

[jaymax]

Just curious about your band tension Faz. I may be way off here since I've never done it but doesn't westside use more like 10% or so on band tension or am I mistaken? Perhaps I'm thinking of added band tension on a ME exercise I don't know. How'd you arrive at 15-30% band tension?

[Fazc]

Originally Posted by jaymax

Just curious about your band tension Faz. I may be way off here since I've never done it but doesn't westside use more like 10% or so on band tension or am I mistaken? Perhaps I'm thinking of added band tension on a ME exercise I don't know. How'd you arrive at 15-30% band tension?

Some of that is practicalities, I have a certain set of bands and a set-up that I like to use. I generally prefer high band tension, it just feels harder and more challenging to me.

Other than that, I think you'll find if you look again band tension is typically much higher than just 10% for most wave cycles. 15-25% is usually pitched for most squat waves and upto 50% band tension for some circamax cycles.

[Fazc]

Originally Posted by jaymax

Thanks Faz that makes sense. Mind you I'm coming from a very different place then you are now which is a major reason a pure westside approach doesn't appeal to me as much. I won't likely ever compete in PLing. My benches are fairly wide (by close grip powerlifting standards), my squats are high bar olympic ATG and my deads are conventional.

Right now I'm using it on benches with a slight decline and full back squats. Without presses as a focus on the second day I'm free to use that day for more assistance as need be. It's in this way I experimented before with doing DE benches on the second day but switched to light rep work (4 sets of 10) the second day and didn't notice a difference in results.

But in my case, where my focus isn't so much on tricep and lockout strength or shirted benching, the singles and fives day is very similar to westside's ME day it's just the additional volume work is done on benching rather than tricep/lockout work. My second day, however, lends itself to much adaptation and experimentation for whatever is needed. I could even add extensions on the heavy day if it would help...just being very careful about recovery right now.

Jay, I think you're projecting WSB to me. I'm not suggesting you do WSB or that you concentrate on lockout strength and equipped lifting.

I do think, and I reiterate, when gains started to dry up for me. I should have lowered the intensity and concentrate on some assistance. I had greased the groove for 5-6 years and there was very little else to be gained from that approach for me, at the time.

I think you really need to analyse your own lifts and see what needs improving. The biggest improvement for me recently has been form as well as correcting some weaknesses.

[jaymax]

Originally Posted by Fazc

Jay, I think you're projecting WSB to me. I'm not suggesting you do WSB or that you concentrate on lockout strength and equipped lifting.

I do think, and I reiterate, when gains started to dry up for me. I should have lowered the intensity and concentrate on some assistance. I had greased the groove for 5-6 years and there was very little else to be gained from that approach for me, at the time.

I think you really need to analyse your own lifts and see what needs improving. The biggest improvement for me recently has been form as well as correcting some weaknesses.

Faz, I didn't really man it to sound like it came out. I was really just relating my current approach to what you are doing now while thinking out loud. And I think you are right about the weakness/assistance thing which is why I'm incorporating inclines into my routine. I'm weak as hell on them and it feels like all shoulder and tricep with the form I use, which clearly is a weak point for me or I'd be able to move more weight on them.

[Fazc]

Thinking out loud is what this thread is all about, feel free to carry on musing I was merely clarifying my point.

Here's another thing to think about. I've found that when determining weak points you need to ensure that they are weak relative to the form that you want to achieve. So in your example Inclines which are weak may not necessarily help, if they do not contribute to a movement path that you want to achieve. Of course they may help, that's just an example.

Another example. I could very easily say my weakness on the squats is quads. Should I strengthen the quads it may well lead to additional squat strength, especially out of the bottom HOWEVER it would ruin the form that I at attempting to achieve and ultimately be self-defeating.

So always keep the end-goal in mind. Perfection of a form that is efficient for you, strengthen THAT form to the exception of anything else.

[BendtheBar]

Think out loud. The more, the better.

I wish more guys here would. We have a lot of hardcore, dedicated lifters who rarely interact. So keep it up.

[jaymax]

Thanks guys...always welcoming as usual!

And Faz, your point about quads is along the lines of what I was saying earlier. For me, as a wider grip bencher I don't necessarily feel that working more triceps and close grips will help strengthen the form I use. Might help, might not. Same for me with the squats...incorporating more ham and tri-dominant movements might not be right "for me". That's all I was getting at

Maybe inclines will be of benefit maybe not, we'll see. I went with inclines over doing a strictly MP day to involve more chest and still do them fairly wide but still feel mostly delt and tricep. Maybe at some point I'll incorporate DE work again...it's all a learning process.

[Fazc]

Originally Posted by jaymax

Same for me with the squats...incorporating more ham and tri-dominant movements might not be right "for me". That's all I was getting at

I never said otherwise Jay. The only point I made was that the singles took my CGBP up to 140kg back in 2006. I think you took that to mean I was recommending CGBP, but at the time I was a raw lifter and only ever benched with a close grip. I was just telling you what could be achieved with a singles+back off approach to the main lift, as you requested.

That's what I meant when I said you were projecting WSB into my answer, we were discussing singles+back offs as you were asking about it. That's what my answer was related to, nothing to do with WSB or tri/ham focus.

[jaymax]

Originally Posted by Fazc

That's what I meant when I said you were projecting WSB into my answer, we were discussing singles+back offs as you were asking about it. That's what my answer was related to, nothing to do with WSB or tri/ham focus.

Yeah Faz you are absolutely right that is what I was doing. I was discussing two different topics at the same time. Then I started commenting on what westside usually advocates which, from anything I've ever heard, is triceps triceps triceps. I wasn't implying you were advocating that for me if it came off that way.

I like the point you made though. You have to pick movements that augment YOUR movement pattern.

[Fazc]

Now we're on the same page

Originally Posted by jaymax

I like the point you made though. You have to pick movements that augment YOUR movement pattern.

Yeah absolutely, it's something that sounds very obvious but it really rang home this past couple months for me.

From now on for me it'll be mostly as simple as bench close and squat wide.