Increasing Strength

[5kgLifter]

Originally Posted by Fazc

Thinking about doing some speed work. Probably in light gear.

Undecided on when to do it; on it's own day or after some heavier work and how mant sets/reps and especially rest periods. I'm usually quite explosive, I was considering even shorter rest periods to make it harder.

Would speed work be better, more productive, in a non-fatigued state, done fresh?

[Fazc]

Originally Posted by 5kgLifter

Would speed work be better, more productive, in a non-fatigued state, done fresh?

Good point. That is the idea isn't it? Which is why they do singles, doubles and triples. So all/most of the reps are done fresh.

Here's my thinking: the problem I inevitably have with speed work is that I'm already quite fast under load, but when I increase the poundage I end up getting sore joints... you can see my dilemma. So I kinda figured if I reduced the rest periods, that might function to make things harder but not necessarily with more weight.

That's kinda where my heads at with it at the moment, but i'm still just thinking

[5kgLifter]

Originally Posted by Fazc

Good point. That is the idea isn't it? Which is why they do singles, doubles and triples. So all/most of the reps are done fresh.

Here's my thinking: the problem I inevitably have with speed work is that I'm already quite fast under load, but when I increase the poundage I end up getting sore joints... you can see my dilemma. So I kinda figured if I reduced the rest periods, that might function to make things harder but not necessarily with more weight.

That's kinda where my heads at with it at the moment, but i'm still just thinking

How about adding some instability to the lifts via hanging weight plates/KBs but being able to keep the loads that you want without needing to increase them and stressing the joints? That way, you have to work harder, still get the speed work, and avoid the extra joint stress at the same time.

[Fazc]

Originally Posted by 5kgLifter

How about adding some instability to the lifts via hanging weight plates/KBs but being able to keep the loads that you want without needing to increase them and stressing the joints? That way, you have to work harder, still get the speed work, and avoid the extra joint stress at the same time.

Yeah, I never liked that idea. I've done everything I can to make sure my bench bar path is solid to reduce shoulder strain that I inevitably get with my monkey arms. To purposefully put that under stress might mess me up.

Perhaps it's just a form issue, my form is far better now in both the squat and bench than it was in September/November. I wonder if the previous form was exacerbating issues with my elbow/knees. I used to tuck a lot, probably too much which adds stress to the elbows and I used to squat narrower as well which isn't so good on my knees.

Perhaps it would suit me better now?

[5kgLifter]

Originally Posted by Fazc

Yeah, I never liked that idea. I've done everything I can to make sure my bench bar path is solid to reduce shoulder strain that I inevitably get with my monkey arms. To purposefully put that under stress might mess me up.

Perhaps it's just a form issue, my form is far better now in both the squat and bench than it was in September/November. I wonder if the previous form was exacerbating issues with my elbow/knees. I used to tuck a lot, probably too much which adds stress to the elbows and I used to squat narrower as well which isn't so good on my knees.

Perhaps it would suit me better now?

I know I dropped my OHP work to 3/4 of my normal weightload (and added the instability) and a couple of weeks later, the full load, minus the instability aspect, went up so smoothly, I was amazed.

It could well be that with the better form, you may not notice as much of an issue; then again, if you ever decided to opt for the instability at all, there would also be the aspect of securing a load to a speeding bar with a lot of movement and swing potential going on, something I hadn't thought of until now.

[Fazc]

Originally Posted by 5kgLifter

I know I dropped my OHP work to 3/4 of my normal weightload (and added the instability) and a couple of weeks later, the full load, minus the instability aspect, went up so smoothly, I was amazed.

It could well be that with the better form, you may not notice as much of an issue; then again, if you ever decided to opt for the instability at all, there would also be the aspect of securing a load to a speeding bar, something I hadn't thought of until now.

You're right, perhaps it's something I should try before dismissing it. I could attach small plates or I have a couple of footballs which would work.

You ever tried bands to slow yourself down near the top?

[5kgLifter]

Originally Posted by Fazc

You're right, perhaps it's something I should try before dismissing it. I could attach small plates or I have a couple of footballs which would work.

You ever tried bands to slow yourself down near the top?

I haven't tried bands as yet, not in that way, I do have a couple though so I may give that a go sometime.

When I did the OHP with the instability, I hung 8kg either end of the bar.

[LtL]

Al, I'm looking at the speed work again and considering having a speed day within my template. Comparing WSB with Supertraining speed days, the WSB guys seem to do the whole fast down/fast up almost ballistic style of speed work. The ST guys are much, much slower; taking a slow-ish descent, fast upwards stroke and then pause at the top. What's the deal here? I've only ever done speed work the WSB way, fast up, fast down.

Faz asked the above question in my log.

I think the reason for the difference between the two is simply the weights used. Mark Bell has benched close to 900lbs in competition and his speed sets (often using his slingshot) are pretty speedy in the ST videos. He has also tried to work on the ballistic style recently where he is turning the weight around just above the chest. The other guys in his crew are not as strong but use similar weights which is why they are slower.

Videos such as this one:

You Tube

You Tube

Showing Jay Fry who still trains at Westside show them using much lower bar weight AND less accommodating resistance. Keep in mind that Jay is pound for pound (hate writing that) as strong as Mark with a competition bench over 650lbs in the 181lbs class (http://www.criticalbench.com/Jay-Fry.htm).

To sum up I have found that getting the best out of your speed work involves moving light(er) weights as fast as possible both up and down. Get more out of less. Whether you do fast negatives (purposely) is personal preference based on shoulder health.

LtL

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by 5kgLifter

How about adding some instability to the lifts via hanging weight plates/KBs but being able to keep the loads that you want without needing to increase them and stressing the joints?

I tried that with squats several times. The instability was manageable, but I was still a bit nervous about something bad going wrong. I had a hard time getting past the mental part of things.

Sometimes on the eccentric the plates would tip in opposite directions and it would cause me to get a bit sideways. A kettlebell might be a better solution if I could afford them, though chains look to be optimal for that type of approach.

In my opinion at least.

[Fazc]

Originally Posted by LtL

The other guys in his crew are not as strong but use similar weights which is why they are slower.

That makes a lot of sense, he is faster and his form generally has more polish than the rest.

...pound for pound (hate writing that) as strong as Mark...

Lol

To sum up I have found that getting the best out of your speed work involves moving light(er) weights as fast as possible both up and down. Get more out of less. Whether you do fast negatives (purposely) is personal preference based on shoulder health.

Thanks man, one further question relating to what I was talking to 5kg about a few posts up. Your opinion on rest periods? I'd quite like to experiment with 30 second rest periods and appropriately low poundage to enable me to do speed work fast with those rest periods.

My reasoning being I'm pretty fast anyway and since I can move fast with a heavy weight (I've done 70%+ fast) I tend to beat up my joints, shortening the rest periods may well allow me to get the same effect with a lighter weight.

Thoughts?