Increasing Strength

[Off Road]

Besides, you will never hear me say a bad word about Wendler's 5/3/1 workout. I know some top lifters that use it successfully, I know some intermediate lifters that make consistant progress from meet to meet with it, and I increased my squat from 400lb to 450 lb (14" box) in the year that I used it.

[Fazc]

Offroad, you know I love you but I'm not really sure why you've come into this thread. In adopting one approach you have pigeon-holed yourself into this Juggernaut/5/3/1 program, in doing so whatever suggestion I give to you will have to be within the confines of that approach.

This thread is about an open discussion of ideas, not confined to any one approach. I can give you ideas but they won't jive with your approach.

[Off Road]

Originally Posted by Fazc

Offroad, you know I love you but I'm not really sure why you've come into this thread.. This thread is about an open discussion of ideas, not confined to any one approach.

Sorry. I was on topic but got off track with the flow of the conversation. I will leave this thread alone in the future as i guess my ideas don't jibe well with this thread. Carry on.

[Fazc]

Originally Posted by Off Road

I will leave this thread alone in the future as i guess my ideas don't jibe well with this thread. Carry on.

That's not what I said Offroad.

Feel free to dip in and out but just understand that me, Btb, Tann, Pull etc have a very open approach to training and the exchange of ideas as, in my opinion, it should be. As such there will be talk of all kinds of training approaches but it won't be dominated by any one training routine.

The moment we start down the line of 'oh that makes sense but doesn't jive with my routine', we need to take serious stock of why we're training and how open minded we are. There is nothing wrong with being close minded and loyal to one approach (in some ways that's great!) but that isn't exactly conducive to conversation or learning.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by Off Road

Sorry. I was on topic but got off track with the flow of the conversation. I will leave this thread alone in the future as i guess my ideas don't jibe well with this thread. Carry on.

Please don't. I learn a lot from you and it would be a shame if you decreased activity on this thread and forum.

[mab54]

Originally Posted by Off Road

Sorry. I was on topic but got off track with the flow of the conversation. I will leave this thread alone in the future as i guess my ideas don't jibe well with this thread. Carry on.

Please continue to comment in this thread, I really just found and have been reading a little and your comments are full of useful information.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Off Road

Sorry. I was on topic but got off track with the flow of the conversation. I will leave this thread alone in the future as i guess my ideas don't jibe well with this thread. Carry on.

Sorry Off Road, looks like you're outvoted. I like reading your comments as well, please continue!

[jaymax]

Originally Posted by Beast

Sorry Off Road, looks like you're outvoted. I like reading your comments as well, please continue!

Oh man, there goes Off Road yammering on about 5/3/1 and Juggernaut again! I kid of course, Off Road.

[jaymax]

Hey,
now you beasts are deloading after every 2 weeks so this doesn't exactly apply but I wanted to bring something up for sake of discussion. Do 90% weights burn you out after 3 weeks as Simmons and Zatsiorsky claim? Does switching movement actually get around this or do you still need to have a deload week with lower intensity?

From a little reading it seems to me that WS claims rotating exercises eliminates this issue yet at the same time they do a light day every so many weeks? Hepburn, Ditillo, et all never claimed this to be the case but they didn't advocate going to 100% max singles either. What do we think about the whole thing?

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by jaymax

Do 90% weights burn you out after 3 weeks as Simmons and Zatsiorsky claim? Does switching movement actually get around this or do you still need to have a deload week with lower intensity?

From a little reading it seems to me that WS claims rotating exercises eliminates this issue yet at the same time they do a light day every so many weeks? Hepburn, Ditillo, et all never claimed this to be the case but they didn't advocate going to 100% max singles either. What do we think about the whole thing?

From my understanding Hepburn would run the singles program until it beat him down too much and then go back to the "lighter" burden of triples.

Regarding 90% weights, I can only speak personally. With what I am doing there is no way I could train beyond 2 weeks @ 90% plus. Usually after 1.5 weeks I am ready for a deload because I feel very much beat down.

I have been at 90% twice per week since starting this program, with one of the days each week being a more light, but challenging, training day. Usually about 80% of 1RM.

So, after about 3 heavy workouts on a lift in 10-11 training days I feel ready to stop. My CNS might be beat down and/or my body feels like it was run over by a truck.

Westside focuses on only one heavy day per week, thus adding additional rest into the equation. (I use "only" lightly) It appears on the surface to me that using this approach I might (might) be able to train a lift 3 weeks in a row before needing a deload. Perhaps longer, but then the question becomes...is it doing any good after this point? I don't know.

I could see running Westside and structuring exercises in a certain pattern, changing them week to week to incorporate lifts that might not require me to deload. For example, I have a friend that cycles things like sumo good mornings, reverse band sumo deadlifts and sumo zercher squats from pins.

I probably haven't provided much of an answer here, but it does appear to me that if there was an intelligent approach to cycling exercises one could possibly prolong a cycle without stepping into the "overreaching" zone, which is really what we're taking about here I believe. Correct me if I am wrong.