Increasing Strength

[Fazc]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

Right now it is important that I "get used to" 85-90% plus weight. Because I am doing this now, I am wondering if waves are even needed.

Interesting thoughts Steve thanks for that.

I found the article very thought provoking actually. You and I are doing frequent training and continually hammering away with 90%+ weight set after set. However by and large I don't see a lot of this within these types of lifting schedules. I have seen more modern examples of working up to a top weight and then backing off, Siders, Broz, Perryman, Pendlay, Bulgarians etc.

The way we're doing it would certainly seem to be more tiring than hitting a weight and backing off, or waving a weight up and down slowly as ultimately you will be hitting your top weight more often.

There is the strong counter-point to that from Hepburn/Ditillo of course that we'd have to consider.

But are multiple sets across what's needed in powerlifting? We lift relatively slow, grinding lifts, certainly compared to a Snatch or C&J. One could argue the need for more *reserve* is higher in powerlifting.

I highlighted what you said at the end about our particular circumstances. Both you and I wanted to spend more time with 90%+ weights on our backs and overloads as well to make the feel of a max attempt lighter straight out of the rack. So perhaps for now multiple sets across suit that need better?

Or would we accomplish that anyway with the overload exercise that we have included?

[Pull14]

Like the article and think it makes perfect sense, but from a different prospective. Keep in mind that this article has a heavy focus on the Olympic lifts, where technique plays a much larger role.

With strength, less experience lifters need more volume because the intensities they are capable of pushing still isn't very high and with that, they can recover from the volume easier. An 90% attempt from a novice doesn't do as much to the body as a 90% attempt from an advanced guy. The less experienced also, like the article suggested, needs more practice with the lifts - max attempts are impossible to correct if mid-intensity technique sucks, anyone can have perfect technique with an empty bar because it doesn't present a challenge. Same weight on the bar also presents no changes, allowing more focus on technique.

In regards to the waves, Steve, with strength being the focus, keeping reps low is the way to go. With the slow lifts, that wave method is pretty popular for squats... Work up to a heavy single, drop down for 3-4 triples, work back up to another single, drop back down for several sets of 3-5 reps. The aim of the second single is to lift a bit more weight than the first single.

Not only does the wave add volume and practice with technique but also the variation "primes" the mind/cns for another heavy attempt. Keep in mind this is with training maxs/daily maxes which will probably fall somewhere closer to 90% of 1RM give or take some.

I'd be curious to see how that works with upper body lifts... IMO upper body fatigues easily and probably won't be able to handle something like that unless the daily ma is a bit lower a percentage.

Edit - with the wave, I've also seen work up to single down for three heavy triples or doubles, drop down again for a few light singles and doubles, back UP for 3 heavy triples. The aim for the second grouping of triples is an attempt to get a little heavier...

1x405
3x3x365
1x295
1x325
3x3x375

[BendtheBar]

Right now I feel dropping weight would serve little purpose. One could argue that if allows a practicing of form while the CNS is primed and a weight feels lighter, and that certainly is true. But I am getting enough form practice as it is with the heavy sets.

I think the sheer volume of heavy work each month will serve me well.

[BendtheBar]

Edit - with the wave, I've also seen work up to single down for three heavy triples or doubles, drop down again for a few light singles and doubles, back UP for 3 heavy triples. The aim for the second grouping of triples is an attempt to get a little heavier...

1x405
3x3x365
1x295
1x325
3x3x375

I've seen Poliquin suing heavy and lighter work, but I can't remember the reason he was talking about this approach. I would have to find the article again.

Maybe it was CNS-focused.

From time to time I recommend to folks to do a heavy walkout and hold or two prior to a lighter 1RM attempt.

[glwanabe]

There is some good info to be found here. The Russians have done a lot of work that is quite useful.

http://sportivnypress.com/documents/75.html

[Fazc]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

Right now I feel dropping weight would serve little purpose. One could argue that if allows a practicing of form while the CNS is primed and a weight feels lighter, and that certainly is true. But I am getting enough form practice as it is with the heavy sets.

I think the sheer volume of heavy work each month will serve me well.

Yep, I don't think I'll be dropping the weight to back off either. Instinctively I don't like the idea of a max(ish) single followed by back offs.

Having said that I think you Steve have a bit of both worlds with your second week when you titrate upto a max. You do sacrifice some progression I feel since you don't get to repeat and better your performance in the second week, but at least you get to max.

All in all I think these are relatively minor things but it's interesting to get yours and Pull's feedback on it.

GL: Very interesting link, reading the rest of it now.

[BendtheBar]

You do sacrifice some progression I feel since you don't get to repeat and better your performance in the second week, but at least you get to max.

Are you talking on squats and deads? Would microloading the second week be viable?

I guess I am trying to better understand when you feel it is best to challenge myself. I do try to go for a new max on bench during week 2, but for squats and deadlifts I was planning on adding weight at the start of week 1.

You think it would be better to add weight week 2 instead? Or challenge myself with more than just a weight addition?

Right now I have added 10 pounds to my squat singles day, 5 pounds per 3 week cycle. I started with 450 x 5 x 1, and today hit 460 x 5 x 1.

[Fazc]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

Are you talking on squats and deads? Would microloading the second week be viable?

It's not a bad thing, every variation in lifting is a trade off. In this case it's a very small trade off.

You know I was very happy with your choice when you mentioned it because it does give you an accurate maximum single at least every 3 weeks and that is valuable to gauge progress. You see I don't get that. So my particular rep scheme (sets across) trades off for that, I don't get to max out. But that's a trade off I'm willing to make so have more chances to progress on the multiple singles. For the past 3 Squat sessions I started at 200kg, went 205 and today 210, BUT the bad thing is I haven't tested my max or lifted a max single which has benefits of it's own. Sure I think my max is going up, but I don't know for certain and I don't get the benefits of a max single. It's a trade off.

I like your plan Steve, our particular variations will trade off benefits with losses but overall I don't see it making a massive difference. Eventually I may even switch to something like that in the second week if progression gets too difficult or I feel like a change just as you have the option to switch to sets across all the time when you feel you've had enough of the max singles.

And let's face it, you just Benched a whopping 200kg+. I think it's working! These minor details would never make a massive difference.

[BendtheBar]

I was trying to understand what you thought might be better as far as weeks to test yourself...week 1 or 2.

I am thinking about testing myself on squat singles on the final rep for AMAP, am wanted to see if you thought week 1 or 2 would be better. I am thinking week 2.

I want to use an AMAP set to help better gauge my singles progress.

[Fazc]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

I was trying to understand what you thought might be better as far as weeks to test yourself...week 1 or 2.

I am thinking about testing myself on squat singles on the final rep for AMAP, am wanted to see if you thought week 1 or 2 would be better. I am thinking week 2.

I want to use an AMAP set to help better gauge my singles progress.

Sorry I might have got the wrong end of the stick there, post-workout euphoria an' all.

I agree week 2 would be best/safest.

I've come across the term a couple times, AMAP, but never really looked into what it is. What is it?