Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Muscle Building and Bodybuilding

Notices

Muscle Building and Bodybuilding Topics related to muscle building, bodybuilding, including training and fullbody workouts. If you are looking for great advice on gaining muscle this forum is for you.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-05-2009, 04:46 PM   #1
BendtheBar
BendtheBar
is getting skinny(ish)
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,521,010, Level: 100 Points: 1,521,010, Level: 100 Points: 1,521,010, Level: 100
Activity: 52% Activity: 52% Activity: 52%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 
Extreme Mini Golf Champion!Tournaments Won: 6

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,481
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
My Mood: Lurking
Reputation: 2569933
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default Natural Limits versus Steroids

I am having a conversation on several different forums about natural limits. Read the following article for more info.

http://muscleandbrawn.com/2009/01/de...ing-potential/

Basically, when presented with natural limits, naturals LOVE to claim that they can exceed these limits with hard work. Here is my statement on this "belief."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone says it's possible, but no one can find proof. And the guys that do say their "legs are bigger' then predicted have 20% bodyfat and/or are not using the formula correctly.

My arms are bigger then the prediction at the moment, but I also have 25%+ bodyfat as well.

I know this has been beaten do death but Arnold was 6'2", 235, and his bodyfat wasn't 4-6% like the current competitors, or whatever crazy amount they have.

Arnold 6'2" 235 ...8% bodyfat
Franco 5'5" 185 ...8% bodyfat

If you split that difference between these 2 muscular steroid users, you get (about)...

Average Joe...5'10" 210 ...8% bodyfat.

Here is a comparison between my natural predictions (roughly) and the stats of an uber bodybuilder somewhere between Arnold and Franco...

Steve Shaw
5'10"
178 Pounds Lean Muscle
Weight: 240
Maximum natural potential is around 180-181, so I could still gain a few pounds.

Average Steroid Joe
5'10"
210 pounds
8% bodyfat
193.2 Pounds Lean Muscle

------------------------------------------------------------
What does this tell us?
------------------------------------------------------------

That a steroid user from the Arnold/Franco era only had about 15 pounds of lean muscle on a natural champion. IF it is possible to surpass natural limits, then it is being stated that...

It's possible to become Arnold/Franco-esque WITHOUT steroids.

I can't believe people buy into this this.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Old 07-05-2009, 04:47 PM   #2
tim
tim
has no status.
Just dont care any more
Uber Brawn
Points: 856, Level: 15 Points: 856, Level: 15 Points: 856, Level: 15
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
tim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 436
My Mood: Dead
Reputation: 376
tim is off to a good starttim is off to a good starttim is off to a good starttim is off to a good start
Default

Its extremely hard to get to a crazy size without the use of some help. But overall the attitude and achievement is less in my book if you ask me!
__________________
official MAB Promoter!
If you guys know any places that would be great for promotion of MAB send me a pm.


Free arcade script----

Feel free to join our forum and talk about outdoor activities!
***Total Insanity!!! We promote MAB Weekly
tim is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 09-23-2009, 02:39 PM   #3
Casey Butt
Casey Butt
has no status.
Member
New Brawn
Points: 3,198, Level: 34 Points: 3,198, Level: 34 Points: 3,198, Level: 34
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 37
Reputation: 21682
Casey Butt is a dedicated contributorCasey Butt is a dedicated contributorCasey Butt is a dedicated contributorCasey Butt is a dedicated contributorCasey Butt is a dedicated contributorCasey Butt is a dedicated contributorCasey Butt is a dedicated contributorCasey Butt is a dedicated contributorCasey Butt is a dedicated contributorCasey Butt is a dedicated contributorCasey Butt is a dedicated contributor
Default

On a related subject - the rate of drug-free muscle gains...

The WeighTrainer Blog: Rate of Drug-Free Muscle Gain

Also here...

The WeighTrainer - Rate of Drug-Free Muscle Gain
Casey Butt is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 09-23-2009, 03:18 PM   #4
BendtheBar
BendtheBar
is getting skinny(ish)
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,521,010, Level: 100 Points: 1,521,010, Level: 100 Points: 1,521,010, Level: 100
Activity: 52% Activity: 52% Activity: 52%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 
Extreme Mini Golf Champion!Tournaments Won: 6

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,481
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
My Mood: Lurking
Reputation: 2569933
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey Butt View Post
On a related subject - the rate of drug-free muscle gains...

The WeighTrainer Blog: Rate of Drug-Free Muscle Gain

Also here...

The WeighTrainer - Rate of Drug-Free Muscle Gain
Thanks Casey. Great read as always.

Quote:
Interesting, on the subject of an experienced drug-free bodybuilder putting on just 6 pounds of muscle in a year, two of today's top natural bodybuilding champions, who both had almost 20 years of training experience, had this to say,

"Six pounds in a year? That's not natural!" and "I haven't put on 6 pounds of muscle in the last 10 years, let alone a year."
I haven't put on 2 pounds of muscle in 10 years Almost all my gains were in the first 2.5 years.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."



Last edited by BendtheBar; 09-23-2009 at 03:20 PM.
BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 10-09-2009, 12:05 AM   #5
chess315
chess315
has no status.
Member
Brawn
Points: 929, Level: 16 Points: 929, Level: 16 Points: 929, Level: 16
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
chess315's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 82
Reputation: 11
chess315 is off to a bad start
Default

proably an avreage 6ft man could have around 16 inch arms at 10% bf which is a lot bigger then people would beleive. and bench around 330 0r 340 at a lean build I was in prison so I have pretty good knowlege of what attinable naturaly because I knew life long lifters that wouldnt even know how to take steroid I've seen many guys build a bulky type build and bench around 400 or even more naturally.

Last edited by chess315; 10-09-2009 at 02:37 PM.
chess315 is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 10-09-2009, 12:07 AM   #6
chess315
chess315
has no status.
Member
Brawn
Points: 929, Level: 16 Points: 929, Level: 16 Points: 929, Level: 16
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
chess315's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 82
Reputation: 11
chess315 is off to a bad start
Default

I use steroids one of the main things I think they do is allow you to hold onto more muscle at lower bodyfat if you want to be around 15 or 16% bf you can get pretty strong and bigg naturally but you cant be big and lean there are genetic freaks though
chess315 is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 10-09-2009, 12:08 AM   #7
chess315
chess315
has no status.
Member
Brawn
Points: 929, Level: 16 Points: 929, Level: 16 Points: 929, Level: 16
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
chess315's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 82
Reputation: 11
chess315 is off to a bad start
Default

I love even tough I juice looking at 1950s bodybuilders just to see what is possible naturally you also have to realise we have the a lot of benifets they didnt like nutrition knowledge and supplement which dont help much.
chess315 is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 10-09-2009, 07:35 AM   #8
BendtheBar
BendtheBar
is getting skinny(ish)
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,521,010, Level: 100 Points: 1,521,010, Level: 100 Points: 1,521,010, Level: 100
Activity: 52% Activity: 52% Activity: 52%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 
Extreme Mini Golf Champion!Tournaments Won: 6

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,481
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
My Mood: Lurking
Reputation: 2569933
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chess315 View Post
looking at 1950s bodybuilders just to see what is possible naturally you also have to realise we have the a lot of benifets they didnt like nutrition knowledge and supplement which dont help much.
Very good points. They also trained heavy, and with full body routines...for the most part.

We rarely see pics of modern naturals with around 8-12% bodyfat, which is a shame. Naturals look very big and healthy at that range.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 10-09-2009, 02:33 PM   #9
chess315
chess315
has no status.
Member
Brawn
Points: 929, Level: 16 Points: 929, Level: 16 Points: 929, Level: 16
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
chess315's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 82
Reputation: 11
chess315 is off to a bad start
Default

yeah the full body routines are the shit even arnold the one who f***ed everything up got his size from them yates to he use more of a dc type split but still low volume. Look at john gremik he never had abs you dont need to be rock hard to look good. reg parks I dont belive was natural his whole career like he claims but his early pics are still a good build.
chess315 is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 10-09-2009, 02:36 PM   #10
chess315
chess315
has no status.
Member
Brawn
Points: 929, Level: 16 Points: 929, Level: 16 Points: 929, Level: 16
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
chess315's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 82
Reputation: 11
chess315 is off to a bad start
Default

look at natural power lifters in the 200 or 220 weight class that will give you and idea another way watch prison shows and look at the people lifting in the yard. I was in the joint and can assure you I seen some big guys that didnt take roids. But more of a stocky prowrestler or powerlifter build. being lean kills a naturals mass
chess315 is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
limits, natural, steroids, versus


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
No Limits, No Nonsense Tug Gibson Articles 0 05-31-2011 08:26 AM
Natural Bodybuilders "On" Steroids BendtheBar Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 53 01-13-2011 09:20 PM
Natural Strength And Muscle Limits bwys61 Powerlifting & Strength Training 32 10-13-2009 11:34 AM

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.