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Old 02-17-2012, 06:54 PM   #11
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Flies won't eat margarine. 'Nuff said.
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Old 02-18-2012, 06:25 PM   #12
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Butter all the way. Creamy yummy butter.
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angie828 View Post
Which one is really better for you? I have heard so much and it going back and forth, so I want to know what the final consenses is.
It's not a straightforward question to answer, because all margarine is not created equal. It depends on what sort of margarine and what country you're eating it in.

On the face of it, the obvious answer would be margarine. Margarine contains less saturated fat, and despite what you'll hear on here, the current scientific evidence is that saturated fat intake has a modest but definite link to cardiovascular disease.

However, it's not that simple. In order to increase the solidity of the spread, vegetable oils are treated. This is the process Mr. Beast referred to, though in my view the chemicals involved in the process are irrelevant. In doing so, trans-fats are produced, and these really are bad news for your health. So some margarines contain trans fats. Score one for butter, which will have considerably fewer trans fats.

BUT...margarine manufacturing varies with brand and location. In the UK, margarines are more or less free from trans-fats. The US -for reasons I don't understand -haven't got rid of them, but my guess is that some brands have fewer than others.

Personally, I think (1) distinctions about artificial vs natural are a red herring (2) whether or not cows were fed on grass is irrelevant and (3) margarines have the potential to be healthier if you can find a blend that has no fewer partially hydrogenated (trans) fats.

That's my consensus of one.
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Old 02-18-2012, 08:37 PM   #14
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The superior nutritional value of butter makes it an easy choice.

Beyond that, given the choice, I'll take a natural food over a man-made frankenfood any day of the week. Given the proven ills of a processed food diets, I'm sticking with natural foods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tann
(2) whether or not cows were fed on grass is irrelevant
It is not.

I posted information in a previous thread that contained definable differences between corn fed and grass fed cattle.
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Old 02-18-2012, 09:18 PM   #15
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A few quotes from Power Steer, by Michael Pollan:

Power Steer | Michael Pollan

Draw your own conclusions...

Quote:
(Grass-fed meat has more omega 3 fatty acids and fewer omega 6, which is believed to promote heart disease; it also contains betacarotine and CLA, another “good” fat.) A growing body of research suggests that many of the health problems associated with eating beef are really problems with cornfed beef.
Regarding CLA, butter is rich in CLA. Margarine is not, because it is not a food.

Eat Wild - CLA

Quote:
the kind of CLA found in butter and animal fat is the most potent cancer-fighter. Human breast cancer cells were incubated in milk fat high in CLA or in an isolated form of CLA without any milk fat. The high CLA milk fat decreased cancer growth by 90 percent but the isolated CLA decreased it by only 60 percent. When the cells were incubated in linoleic acid, the kind of fat that is most abundant in grain and grain-fed animals, cell growth increased by 25 percent.

Milk products from 100 percent grassfed cows are as much as seven times higher in cancer-fighting CLA than ordinary milk and far lower in cancer-promoting linoleic acid.
Margarine on the other hand is not a food, it is a hydrogenated fat. It does not contain CLA, nor any of the other bountiful nutrition that butter does. (Vitamin A, D and E)

Of course you could supplement with these vitamins, but I prefer natural vehicles.
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Old 02-19-2012, 12:41 AM   #16
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Bored and thought I would post something I found.

Quote:
Eating butter increases the absorption of many other nutrients in other foods, butter has many nutritional benefits where margarine has a few only because they are added!
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Old 02-19-2012, 07:21 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
It is not.

I posted information in a previous thread that contained definable differences between corn fed and grass fed cattle.
The question isn't whether there are any differences between grass or corn-fed cattle, but whether those differences are relevant to health.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
A few quotes from Power Steer, by Michael Pollan:

Power Steer | Michael Pollan

Draw your own conclusions...
I have.

First, I note that the author seems to have a financial interest in promoting particular foodstuffs that he champions as health-promoting.

Secondly, though CLA appears to have promise as an anti-cancer agent, that's all it is at present - a promising possibility. Unfortunately, there have been many other compounds that have shown promise in initial studies, which have subsequently turned out to be disappointments.

Science works by gradually and carefully accumulating evidence from hundreds of studies. What I see in the case of CLA are some disappointing results from supplementation studies (and to be fair, there may be differences between dietary and supplemental CLA), lots of animal studies (which again, can't offer anything more than 'promise') and a few human studies which look good. What I don't see, however, is any sort of large scale research controlling everything but CLA intake.

Bottom line - do we know CLA actually does anything?

Thirdly, these putative benefits of CLA have to be weighed against the greater saturated fat content of butter. I've said in several posts that while saturated fat is certainly not the only risk factor in CVD, there's no getting away from the evidence that it is a factor. Saturated fat intake is also linked to development of certain cancers.

Quote:
Margarine on the other hand is not a food, it is a hydrogenated fat..
That seems a peculiar definition of food. To me, a food is something that you ingest in order to supply nutrients. Hydrogenation is just another process that alters the chemical composition of a natural product (vegetable oil). You know, like cooking does.
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Old 02-19-2012, 10:28 AM   #18
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I don't post much but read the forum often.

It seems lately that there is a lot of discussion and debate about food issues. People seem fairly polarized in their views.

If I can, here is a little bit of stuff I found interesting.

Butter is the Newest Health Food | Weight Loss Experts | Lose Weight Permanently | Mohr Results


Lard: The New Health Food? | Food & Wine


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Old 02-19-2012, 10:33 AM   #19
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Watched the Sally Fallon video BTB and did some more research. I found this article.

Why Butter Is Better

by Sally Fallon and Mary G. Enig, PhD

When the fabricated food folks and apologists for the corporate farm realized that they couldn't block America's growing interest in diet and nutrition, a movement that would ultimately put an end to America's biggest and most monopolistic industries, they infiltrated the movement and put a few sinister twists on information going out to the public. Item number one in the disinformation campaign was the assertion that naturally saturated fats from animal sources are the root cause of the current heart disease and cancer plague. Butter bore the brunt of the attack, and was accused of terrible crimes. The Diet Dictocrats told us that it was better to switch to polyunsaturated margarine and most Americans did. Butter all but disappeared from our tables, shunned as a miscreant.

This would come as a surprise to many people around the globe who have valued butter for its life-sustaining properties for millennia. When Dr. Weston Price studied native diets in the 1930's he found that butter was a staple in the diets of many supremely healthy peoples.1 Isolated Swiss villagers placed a bowl of butter on their church altars, set a wick in it, and let it burn throughout the year as a sign of divinity in the butter. Arab groups also put a high value on butter, especially deep yellow-orange butter from livestock feeding on green grass in the spring and fall. American folk wisdom recognized that children raised on butter were robust and sturdy; but that children given skim milk during their growing years were pale and thin, with "pinched" faces.2

Does butter cause disease? On the contrary, butter protects us against many diseases.
Butter & Heart Disease

Heart disease was rare in America at the turn of the century. Between 1920 and 1960, the incidence of heart disease rose precipitously to become America's number one killer. During the same period butter consumption plummeted from eighteen pounds per person per year to four. It doesn't take a Ph.D. in statistics to conclude that butter is not a cause. Actually butter contains many nutrients that protect us from heart disease. First among these is vitamin A which is needed for the health of the thyroid and adrenal glands, both of which play a role in maintaining the proper functioning of the heart and cardiovascular system. Abnormalities of the heart and larger blood vessels occur in babies born to vitamin A deficient mothers. Butter is America's best and most easily absorbed source of vitamin A.

Butter contains lecithin, a substance that assists in the proper assimilation and metabolism of cholesterol and other fat constituents.

Butter also contains a number of anti-oxidants that protect against the kind of free radical damage that weakens the arteries. Vitamin A and vitamin E found in butter both play a strong anti-oxidant role. Butter is a very rich source of selenium, a vital anti-oxidant--containing more per gram than herring or wheat germ.

Butter is also a good dietary source cholesterol. What?? Cholesterol an anti-oxidant?? Yes indeed, cholesterol is a potent anti-oxidant that is flooded into the blood when we take in too many harmful free-radicals--usually from damaged and rancid fats in margarine and highly processed vegetable oils.3 A Medical Research Council survey showed that men eating butter ran half the risk of developing heart disease as those using margarine.4
Butter & Cancer

In the 1940's research indicated that increased fat intake caused cancer.5 The abandonment of butter accelerated; margarine--formerly a poor man's food-- was accepted by the well-to-do. But there was a small problem with the way this research was presented to the public. The popular press neglected to stress that fact that the "saturated" fats used in these experiments were not naturally saturated fats but partially hydrogenated or hardened fats--the kind found mostly in margarine but not in butter. Researchers stated--they may have even believed it--that there was no difference between naturally saturated fats in butter and artificially hardened fats in margarine and shortening. So butter was tarred with the black brush of the fabricated fats, and in such a way that the villains got passed off as heroes.

Actually many of the saturated fats in butter have strong anti-cancer properties. Butter is rich in short and medium chain fatty acid chains that have strong anti-tumor effects.6 Butter also contains conjugated linoleic acid which gives excellent protection against cancer.7

Vitamin A and the anti-oxidants in butter--vitamin E, selenium and cholesterol--protect against cancer as well as heart disease.
Butter & the Immune System

Vitamin A found in butter is essential to a healthy immune system; short and medium chain fatty acids also have immune system strengthening properties. But hydrogenated fats and an excess of long chain fatty acids found in polyunsaturated oils and many butter substitutes both have a deleterious effect on the immune system.8
Butter & Arthritis

The Wulzen or "anti-stiffness" factor is a nutrient unique to butter. Dutch researcher Wulzen found that it protects against calcification of the joints--degenerative arthritis--as well as hardening of the arteries, cataracts and calcification of the pineal gland.9 Unfortunately this vital substance is destroyed during pasteurization. Calves fed pasteurized milk or skim milk develop joint stiffness and do not thrive. Their symptoms are reversed when raw butterfat is added to the diet.
Butter & Osteoporosis

Vitamins A and D in butter are essential to the proper absorption of calcium and hence necessary for strong bones and teeth. The plague of osteoporosis in milk-drinking western nations may be due to the fact that most people choose skim milk over whole, thinking it is good for them. Butter also has anti-cariogenic effects, that is, it protects against tooth decay.10
Butter & the Thyroid Gland

Butter is a good source of iodine, in highly absorbable form. Butter consumption prevents goiter in mountainous areas where seafood is not available. In addition, vitamin A in butter is essential for proper functioning of the thyroid gland.11
Butter & Gastrointestinal Health

Butterfat contains glycospingolipids, a special category of fatty acids that protect against gastro-intestinal infection, especially in the very young and the elderly. For this reason, children who drink skim milk have diarrhea at rates three to five times greater than children who drink whole milk.12 Cholesterol in butterfat promotes health of the intestinal wall and protects against cancer of the colon.13 Short and medium chain fatty acids protect against pathogens and have strong anti-fungal effects.14 Butter thus has an important role to play in the treatment of candida overgrowth.
Butter & Weight Gain

The notion that butter causes weight gain is a sad misconception. The short and medium chain fatty acids in butter are not stored in the adipose tissue, but are used for quick energy. Fat tissue in humans is composed mainly of longer chain fatty acids.15 These come from olive oil and polyunsaturated oils as well as from refined carbohydrates. Because butter is rich in nutrients, it confers a feeling of satisfaction when consumed. Can it be that consumption of margarine and other butter substitutes results in cravings and bingeing because these highly fabricated products don't give the body what it needs?.
Butter for Growth & Development

Many factors in butter ensure optimal growth of children. Chief among them is vitamin A. Individuals who have been deprived of sufficient vitamin A during gestation tend to have narrow faces and skeletal structure, small palates and crowded teeth.16 Extreme vitamin A deprivation results in blindness, skeletal problems and other birth defects.17 Individuals receiving optimal vitamin A from the time of conception have broad handsome faces, strong straight teeth, and excellent bone structure. Vitamin A also plays an important role in the development of the sex characteristics. Calves fed butter substitutes sicken and die before reaching maturity.18

The X factor, discovered by Dr. Weston Price (and now believed to be vitamin K2), is also essential for optimum growth. It is only present in butterfat from cows on green pasture.19 Cholesterol found in butterfat plays an important role in the development of the brain and nervous system.20 Mother's milk is high in cholesterol and contains over 50 percent of its calories as butterfat. Low fat diets have been linked to failure to thrive in children21--yet low-fat diets are often recommended for youngsters! Children need the many factors in butter and other animal fats for optimal development.
Beyond Margarine

It's no longer a secret that the margarine Americans have been spreading on their toast, and the hydrogenated fats they eat in commercial baked goods like cookies and crackers, is the chief culprit in our current plague of cancer and heart disease.22 But mainline nutrition writers continue to denigrate butter--recommending new fangled tub spreads instead.23 These may not contain hydrogenated fats but they are composed of highly processed rancid vegetable oils, soy protein isolate and a host of additives. A glitzy cookbook called Butter Busters promotes butter buds, made from maltodextrin, a carbohydrate derived from corn, along with dozens of other highly processed so-called low-fat commercial products.

Who benefits from the propaganda blitz against butter? The list is a long one and includes orthodox medicine, hospitals, the drug companies and food processors. But the chief beneficiary is the large corporate farm and the cartels that buy their products--chiefly cotton, corn and soy--America's three main crops, which are usually grown as monocultures on large farms, requiring extensive use of artificial fertilizers and pesticides. All three--soy, cotton and corn--can be used to make both margarine and the new designer spreads. In order to make these products acceptable to the up-scale consumer, food processors and agribusiness see to it that they are promoted as health foods. We are fools to believe them.
Butter & the Family Farm

A nation that consumes butterfat, on the other hand, is a nation that sustains the family farm. If Americans were willing to pay a good price for high quality butter and cream, from cows raised on natural pasturage--every owner of a small- or medium-sized farm could derive financial benefits from owning a few Jersey or Guernsey cows. In order to give them green pasture, he would naturally need to rotate crops, leaving different sections of his farm for his cows to graze and at the same time giving the earth the benefit of a period of fallow--not to mention the benefit of high quality manure. Fields tended in this way produce very high quality vegetables and grains in subsequent seasons, without the addition of nitrogen fertilizers and with minimal use of pesticides. Chickens running around his barnyard, and feeding off bugs that gather under cowpaddies, would produce eggs with superb nutritional qualities--absolutely bursting with vitamin A and highly beneficial fatty acids.

If you wish to reestablish America as a nation of prosperous farmers in the best Jeffersonian tradition, buy organic butter, cream, whole milk, whole yoghurt, and barn-free eggs. These bring good and fair profits to the yeoman producer without concentrating power in the hands of conglomerates.

Ethnic groups that do not use butter obtain the same nutrients from things like insects, organ meats, fish eggs and the fat of marine animals, food items most of us find repulsive. For Americans--who do not eat bugs or blubber--butter is not just better, it is essential.

Notes
Price, Weston, DDS Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, 1945, Price Pottenger Nutrition Foundation, Inc., La Mesa, California
Representative of American folk traditions about butterfat is this passage from "Neighbor Rosicky", by American author Willa Cather: [The Rosickys] had been at one accord not to hurry through life, not to be always skimping and saving. They saw their neighbours buy more land and feed more stock than they did, without discontent. Once when the creamery agent came to the Rosickys to persuade them to sell him their cream, he told them how much the Fasslers, their nearest neighbours, had made on their cream last year. "Yes," said Mary, "and look at them Fassler children! Pale, pinched little things, they look like skimmed milk. I'd rather put some colour into my children's faces than put money into the bank."
Cranton, EM, MD and JP Frackelton, MD, Journal of Holistic Medicine, Spring/Summer 1984
Nutrition Week Mar 22, 1991 21:12:2-3
Enig, Mary G, PhD, Nutrition Quarterly, 1993 Vol 17, No 4
Cohen, L A et al, J Natl Cancer Inst 1986 77:43
Belury, MA Nutrition Reviews, April 1995 534) 83-89
Cohen, op cit
American Journal of Physical Medicine, 1941, 133; Physiological Zoology, 1935 8:457
Kabara, J J, The Pharmacological Effects of Lipids, J J Kabara, ed, The American Oil Chemists Society, Champaign, IL 1978 pp 1-14
Jennings, IW Vitamins in Endocrine Metabolism, Charles C. Thomas Publisher, Springfield, Ill, pp 41-57
Koopman, JS, et al American Journal of Public Health 1984 74(12):1371-1373
Addis, Paul, Food and Nutrition News, March/April 1990 62:2:7-10
Prasad, KN, Life Science, 1980, 27:1351-8; Gershon, Herman and Larry Shanks, Symposium on the Pharmacological Effect of Lipids, Jon J Kabara Ed, American Oil Chemists Society, Champaign, Illinois 1978 51-62
Levels of linoleic acid in adipose tissues reflect the amount of linoleic acid in the diet. Valero, et al Annals of Nutritional Metabolism, Nov/Dec 1990 34:6:323-327; Felton, CV et al, Lancet 1994 344:1195-96
Price, op cit
Jennings, op cit
DeCava, Judith Journal of the National Academy of Research Biochemists, September 1988 1053-1059
Price, op cit
Alfin-Slater, R B and L Aftergood, "Lipids", Modern Nutrition in Health and Disease, Chapter 5, 6th ed, R S Goodhart and M E Shils, eds, Lea and Febiger, Philadelphia 1980, p 131
Smith, MM, MNS RD and F Lifshitz, MD Pediatrics, Mar 1994 93:3:438-443
Enig, op cit
"Diet Roulette", The New York Times, May 20, 1994.
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Old 02-19-2012, 10:34 AM   #20
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Here you go. Sally Fallon's description of how margarine is made.

Quote:
Sally Fallon’s description of how margarine is made:

Margarine processing uses the cheapest seeds, most of which are full of pesticides and genetically engineered. Oil is extracted under high temperature and pressure, and the remaining fraction of oil is removed with hexane solvents. Then manufacturers steam clean the oils, which removes all the vitamins and all the antioxidants – but, of course, the solvents and the pesticides remain. These oils are mixed with a nickle catalyst and then put into a huge high-pressure, high-temperature reactor.

What comes out of that reactor is a smelly mass resembling grey cottage cheese. Then they mix in the emulsifiers to smooth it out, and steam clean it again to get rid of the horrible smell. Then they bleach it to get rid of the grey color, and they add artificial flavors and synthetic vitamins. But they are not allowed to add a synthetic color to margarine. They have to add a natural color, such as annatto – a comforting thought. It is then packaged in blocks and tubs and advertised as health food.
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