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Old 02-07-2012, 04:41 PM   #21
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I figured since my shirt had gone up 50 pounds then my raw bench had increased. I ended up barely being able to bench 335 when I took the shirt off. So my shirt bench went up 50 pounds and my raw dropped at least 20 at the same time.
Excellent insight. I would have never guessed that you would have lost strength.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:42 PM   #22
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No problem and I am still a newbie to alot of it. I do think that if your shirt bench is your main concern that there is nothing wrong with staying in it.

Doing something similar to a MM template. Work up to a heavy triple raw and then put your shirt on. Then boards and maybe racks if you can take it. Just keep pushing that raw triple or try like hell to maintain it. If you do that and are a full meet lifter then I would only bench once a week. I talked to Sebastian Burns and thats what he recommends for the crazy volume the MM guys do.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:45 PM   #23
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Excellent insight. I would have never guessed that you would have lost strength.
It suprised me too but to be fair I didnt train like that for a year. It was only a few months. I am sure that my raw strength would have eventually gone back up but it just bothered me. Plus my crew wanted to start doing more raw meets so it was hard to train in a shirt by yourself. I also got tired of blowing out my face every Sunday and my wife looking at me like I was a complete idiot!
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:45 PM   #24
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Doing something similar to a MM template. Work up to a heavy triple raw and then put your shirt on. Then boards and maybe racks if you can take it. Just keep pushing that raw triple or try like hell to maintain it. If you do that and are a full meet lifter then I would only bench once a week. I talked to Sebastian Burns and thats what he recommends for the crazy volume the MM guys do.
I read a lot about the MM guys some years back, pretty cool you actually got to talk to Burns about it. A lot of it made sense to me, more so than the WSB floating around at the time.

Across my training week I'm hoping to be doing Shirted Bench and Raw Bench, as well as hit a couple of assistance lifts too.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:46 PM   #25
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Glad you popped in buddy, your thoughts? I can't recall, did you ever use gear?



I think for me that probably would be a bit high, you'd be more inured toward using 80% on a regular basis than I would. I was thinking more along the lines of 60-70, especially with all the rest of the stuff I'll be doing.
I forgot that more advanced lifters tolerate higher volume/percentage a lot less than intermediates/noobs. I think it was Dave Tate who said that elite lifters would be killed trying to emulate the 80% of 1RM achieveable by a relative newcomer in terms of reps so yeah, 60-70 would be much smarter!
One of the lads here mentioned that he saw Donnie Thompson warm up with 700 raw for squats like most guys warm up with 135! Clearly, his raw strength is phenomenal and it must be because he trained it along with the gear. At least that's what makes sense!
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:50 PM   #26
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I forgot that more advanced lifters tolerate higher volume/percentage a lot less than intermediates/noobs. I think it was Dave Tate who said that elite lifters would be killed trying to emulate the 80% of 1RM achieveable by a relative newcomer in terms of reps so yeah, 60-70 would be much smarter!
Yeah, there is that. 80% for me really would be right on the bone. I'll be starting lighter though, to ease myself into it. I need to keep up with the rest of the weekly pressing as well, so I'll be doing myself a favour if I work in slowly.

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One of the lads here mentioned that he saw Donnie Thompson warm up with 700 raw for squats like most guys warm up with 135! Clearly, his raw strength is phenomenal and it must be because he trained it along with the gear. At least that's what makes sense!
Yeah that's awesome. No doubt he wouldn't be able to Squat what he does equipped if he couldn't Squat that much raw.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:09 PM   #27
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Mark Bell when talking about equipped lifting says that there are two ways to lift more:

1. Improve technique, ie: in the gear.
2. Get stronger, ie: raw

He qualifies that with the fact that raw pbs are only good if they lead to equipped ones. It's a kick in the ego sack but if I can ultimately get my equipped lifts up, I'll take it.

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Old 02-07-2012, 05:16 PM   #28
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Oh and thanks for introducing me to Sebastian Burns

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Old 02-08-2012, 08:54 AM   #29
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Thanks Ehubbard, the last thing you said about finding the balance struck me. I'm feeling much, much better now after lifting in the gear for a while. Injuries are clearing up etc. So perhaps re-introducing some moderate raw work now may be a good option. If I introduce it as assistance rather than the main focus my sets/reps will reflect that and perhaps I'll avoid some of the aches and pains I used to get when it was my focus and avoid potentially bigger problems of imbalances that may arise from a poor raw base.

Thanks.
Thats the right approach I think. Pause squats for triples or fives, or something like that after your geared squat work. I would probably avoid box squatting as the sole assistance work in the squat, but you could throw them in. Bench I would do some boards with a 5-10 rep scheme. Speed bench usually causes shoulder issues with me so I try and avoid that, unless I solely focus on speed on the concentric.
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:14 AM   #30
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Thats the right approach I think. Pause squats for triples or fives, or something like that after your geared squat work. I would probably avoid box squatting as the sole assistance work in the squat, but you could throw them in. Bench I would do some boards with a 5-10 rep scheme. Speed bench usually causes shoulder issues with me so I try and avoid that, unless I solely focus on speed on the concentric.
Thanks again, based on this thread and chats with some of my british friends I'm sold on it. I'll try to introduce some raw work and take this as an opportunity to add in more work during the week.
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