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Old 10-03-2011, 02:16 PM   #11
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It's not for novices.
I know that and you know that but many resources on the net are still teaching it to novices along with other concepts like time under tension.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:19 PM   #12
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I know that and you know that but many resources on the net are still teaching it to novices along with other concepts like time under tension.
That's true. There's a lot of stuff out there which is just plain inappropriate for novices.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:26 PM   #13
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I respect everyone's opinion and I mean no disrespect, nor am I trying to be argumentative, when I say that I personally find the concept useless in most circumstances.
I don't think anyone who has spent time interacting with you would think that.

I first came to buy into the idea during my PT rehab of my shoulder last year. For example, my PT was adamant with certain rehab exercises of my shoulder that my traps not be tense. He would check to make sure and after a while, I could tell when they were and weren't tense (And correct myself).

I'm not stressing that its a concept for beginning lifters, but being able to feel your body move in the desired way (mind-muscle connection) doesn't sound that different from monitoring your form. With experience, I think this monitoring becomes unconscious, unless new and higher weight loads are introduced and form has to be reassessed.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:33 PM   #14
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The issue I have with the mind muscle connection is that it encourages novices to focus on muscles over form.
On the contrary. It builds both. If you are lifting slower it is easier to watch your form.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:35 PM   #15
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With experience, I think this monitoring becomes unconscious, unless new and higher weight loads are introduced and form has to be reassessed.
Yeah, that's pretty much the way I've worked it. Even when I'm in power mode there are some exercises I really don't want to lift just for the sake of moving them from A to B. Extensions, dumbbell rows, laterals etc. These are the types of exercises that I'll go lighter to get the muscle working and I'll probably restrict the rest times too.

Essentially most of the last three years of my training has been this type of lifting, I kinda had to what with injuries and stuff. So it's not altogether useless. You can get away with more volume because the weights are generally lighter and it's a decent way to put on mass if you have a good base of strength.

Doing Dumbbell Flyes with 50lb's for example is fine, if you're still a novice and need to use 10lbs then that's not so cool. The base of your strength will help you in the bodybuilder type stuff.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:37 PM   #16
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On the contrary. It builds both. If you are lifting slower it is easier to watch your form.
Well, I agree with you on this for more advanced trainees but you're taking it a bit far by saying it can be appropriate for novices.

Mind-muscle connection doesn't work if there is a mind but no muscle.

I think ViolentVolume made a good point to remember about novices.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:47 PM   #17
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The mind-muscle connection is something I work on outside of the weight room a fair bit. I can't contract the muscles in my left leg separately, and can barely flex any of them without flexing the right leg as well. The right leg I can control with much more precision. This is all for physical therapy exercises though, with a little carry over into squatting. Because my right side is so dominant, its difficult to squat without concentrating on the left side of my body throughout the movement.

This probably isn't exactly what the mind muscle connection is supposed to be, but its as close as I am likely to get.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:50 PM   #18
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I don't think anyone who has spent time interacting with you would think that.
Well I wanted to make sure I prefaced my statement because I didn't want to sound like an arrogant, know-it-all.

First and foremost I believe training shoulder be fun. I lift my way for fun, and would never criticize intermediate or advanced lifters who rely on mind muscle or TUT because they enjoy it.

We all agree, it's not a tool for novices to early intermediates.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:57 PM   #19
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We all agree, it's not a tool for novices to early intermediates.
I think this sums up a lot of things nicely. Advanced techniques are for advanced people, in lifting and other pursuits. I wouldn't teach dynamic programming techniques to an intro level computer science class, but at some point this technique becomes invaluable to solve certain problems. Replace the non-bold part of the sentence with your preferred analogy and it still works pretty well.
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Old 10-03-2011, 03:00 PM   #20
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On the contrary. It builds both. If you are lifting slower it is easier to watch your form.
Well Rich I have to disagree with you only because it's rare to see a novice who posts a form video that has good form beyond the basic lifts that are hard to mess up.

There are so many form cues I need to watch when I am performing a lift like benching. Even after 25 years, I still forget them often. Beyond this, I spent 20 years in the bodybuilding realm where solid form was rarely ever taught. Continuing with benching as the example, form was almost always arms flared, flat back, bar to the chest.

If someone actually knows good form, and practices the form cues while lifting, they can do what they want. But quite frankly I don't think there are that many lifters who have even passable form when you step beyond realms like MAB on into the average gym. This past year I have had a chance to train with quite a few pro bodybuilders, and at least 80% of them had bench press form that made me cringe.

In my opinion passable form, and the basic understanding of basic exercise form, isn't something a lot of the bodybuilding community has a grasp of.

Obvious there are a lot of exercises where form is pretty easy to grasp, and hard to mess up. But there are certain lifts like benching where good form is a critical aspect of training longevity.
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