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Old 09-18-2011, 04:53 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post
The fact that the buildings collapsed as through controlled demolition, and no central structure was left - when the builders themselves are on record as saying the towers would withstand the impact of a plane.

Building 7 collapsed in the exact same way, later in the day, with no similar plane attack. Metallurgical tests prove nothing inside the building could have caused the massive steel girders to have collapsed this way.

Between 5 and 7 of the people accused of doing the hijacking have turned up, alive, in a BBC documentary on 911.

I can go on, but these are some of the more established facts, in addition to those BTB mentioned.
It is all very odd. So many things make no sense about the whole thing. The 'official' story of 9/11 is an example of stories of this nature being riddled with holes. The most heinous thing I can think of is that the US govt. knew there was an attack coming and allowed it to happen a la Pearl Harbor. As dodgy as governments are, I couldn't ever envisage them actually being directly involved! I just can't! Not that it matters. Many thousands of good people perished. Other brave rescue people followed.
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:18 PM   #12
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Conspiracy theories as a whole in the US, I believe appear more popular than they actually are simply due to the attention they garner from the media. Only a tiny percentage of the population truly believe these and media (news, tv, movie, internet) has given even the smallest person/opinion a large platform.

As for the 9/11 conspiracy... BS. The theories have debunked time and time again.

Here is one good source.
Debunking 911 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition Homepage

As for the US simply letting 9/11 occur. It did and it didn't. There were multiple failures on the side of intel and application, but people didn't simply "let" it happen as to say they knew it was going to happen without question. To understand this your have to take a deep look at what happened.

In short, after 6 decades of combating communism/soviet union the threat of terror was not seen as a priority. As such resources for this application were limited. For the few intel/LE officers investigating and collecting intel, all believing the threats they were following were real, they "competed" for what limited resources were available for them to push their case further down the pipe. There was no doubt good intentions, but it did result in a massive failure.
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:55 PM   #13
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I think the belief in conspiracies is a little higher than we suspect. When working in blue collar environments there were quite a high percentage of folks that believed all sorts of nonsense.

Edit, just found some polls:

http://www.scrippsnews.com/911poll

http://www.organicconsumers.org/arti...ticle_1475.cfm
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Old 09-18-2011, 03:10 PM   #14
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That first one is a really interesting read.

Quote:
Thirty-six percent of respondents overall said it is "very likely" or "somewhat likely" that federal officials either participated in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon or took no action to stop them "because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East."
Wow. Given my own beliefs about it, and how strongly I hold them, that percentage freaks me out.
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Old 09-18-2011, 11:20 PM   #15
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The government allowed the Luscitania to enter German patrolled waters and get torpedoed, causing the public to get behind declaring World War. Just when the economy was starting collapse.

The government allowed Japanese planes to get close enough to bomb Pearl Harbour, to achieve the same ends and save the country from continued economic stagnation.

The government - namely the Neocon movement within the Bush government - was actively looking for 'A new Pear Harbour' in official documentation, which is a matter of public record.

I am 100% convinced the government - and the people who control each successive government - is responsible for 9/11.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:41 PM   #16
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Personally I don't generally believe a word the government say.

In regards to 9/11, I believe it was an inside job.
After weighing up all the evidence, it points towards the conspiracy.

Some of the things that stood out for me.

they claim to have found that hijackers passport perfectly placed on top of the wtc wreckage. Your telling me that a flimsy piece of paper that fell through 1776 feet of falling steel and fire would remain intact?

9 of the supposed "suicide bombers" are still alive...yeah

Or how they said they never found the virtually indestructible black boxes from the planes amongst the wreckage, holding all the vital information from the plane.

The fact that there were liquid pools of molten steel at the wtc site after the wreckage, along with traces of thermite. Plane fuel doesn't burn and melt steel.

The janitor in the base of the building who had his friends skin blown off from an explosion before the planes hit.

The fact that air defense was called off, and told not to intercept the threat.

How so many people have mysteriously committed suicide when they come forward with a different story from the official one. 6 people.

All the architects who claimed it was a physical impossibility for the towers to fall under those circumstances. One of which again mysteriously committed suicide.


As for the JFK assassination, I think their story is the biggest load of BS I've ever heard.
Jessie Venturea, a US navy seal, and the highest rank marksman, recreated the shooting from the same distance, with the same gun, attempting to pull the kill off with 3 shots in 4 seconds.
He failed every time and his target was still. The reload of the gun ALONE didn't allow him to pull off 3 shots in that time frame, let alone hit the target.

Yet we're lead to believe, that a rookie marksman, accomplished 3 successful shots at a moving car in an insanely slim timeframe that wasn't actually even possible.
Jessie spoke to his wife later, who said she was too scared to speak out because she'd be killed.

Something else interesting is "operation northwoods"
The plan in the 60's for the government to bomb certain areas of the US and blame it on Castro so they could invade Cuba.

The official document that explained how, when and why they were going to do this is now after 35 years of secrecy is available to download as a PDF from the national security archive website, so have a look for yourself.

JFK, refused to have his country bombed by his own government, and then a couple of weeks later he was dead.
His last speech was about this, and how the evils of the government had awakened him, have a listen to it if you get the time.

This ties in with 9/11 too, its exactly the same situation in my opinion.
We have written proof that the government were very willing to attack they're own country in the 60's to go to war, and I reckon they did exactly they same thing with 9/11.
Bush was so retarded he could be brainwashed any into giving the go ahead for attack the WTC, that it was so easy for the REAL government that were controlling him and using him as a puppet,
to go ahead and bomb the wtc, and blame it on a man in a cave (Who I reckon is probably still alive, since they claim to have killed him a total of 4 times now.)
So they could go to war.

I really don't know how I could believe the official story of either JFK or 9/11, but I'm open to opinions, it'd be interesting to see some points made about how the official story could be true.

All said, I'm a very happy person, and I don't let these things depress me.

In regards to how many people believing them, I think since the internet was born its become more popular.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:48 PM   #17
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There sure is some BS conspiracies out there that are just ridiculous, actually most of them come to think of it.
However, I believe some can't be just passed off as "Theories"

Hard facts don't lie.
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Old 04-18-2014, 09:19 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tannhauser View Post
It seems to me that in the UK, a substantial minority of people believe in conspiracy theories - such as 9/11 being an inside job. I think it might be increasing. Last week, I was really shocked when I asked a group of 16 year olds how many believed the 'official' version of events in the 9/11 attacks: only 2/20 put their hands up.

To put my cards on the table, my personal belief is that the 'official explanation' of 9/11 is the correct one, and that various alternative theories (like those promoted in the 'Loose Change' film) are wholly wrong. I also believe whole-heartedly that we did go to the moon, that JFK was assassinated by Oswald alone, that humans cause climate change, and that Marilyn Monroe died by her own hand

However, I really don't want to debate the truth or falseness of those beliefs, but I would be interested to know your take on how widespread conspiracy theories are in the USA. I mean, is this just a UK thing, or is it common over the pond too?

What proportion of US people do you think question the 'standard explanation' when it comes to things like: 9/11, the moon landings, JFK's assassination, etc etc.? Or does it vary widly according to which particular event it is?
I know a few conspiracy theorists.

My problem is their belief that EVERY SINGLE bad thing that happens is a conspiracy.

And many conspiracies serve as a convenient way to evade personal responsibility.

For example, overweight men and low testosterone are never the result of personal lifestyle choices.

No, it's all the work of some undefined, amorphous "New World Order" who is out their poisoning the water supply with SSRIS, fluoride, etc.

And most conspiracy theorists I know don't believe there's any such thing as incompetence.

For whatever reason, they believe that the world is run by brilliant but evil criminal master minds and when tragedy strikes, it's the masterminds who are behind it.

The government "allowing" Pearl Harbor to take place is a classic example of how conspiracies work.

To believe such a thing, you must discard any notion of governmental incompetence. You must also ignore the fact that Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto was a brilliant naval strategist and Japan had what was considered the best military aircraft in the world at that time.

Short answer: Japan was prepared to fight a war. The United States wasn't.

Or at least that's the version of the story that I believe.

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Old 04-18-2014, 11:49 PM   #19
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I take somewhat of a pragmatic view on U.S. conspiracy theorists:

If the President of the United States can't get away with getting a simple, decent blow job in the oval office without the entire world finding out within a month....how and the hell can a group of conspirators keep anything quite for so long?

Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead...... Benjamin Franklin
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Old 04-19-2014, 10:22 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandbox View Post
I take somewhat of a pragmatic view on U.S. conspiracy theorists:

If the President of the United States can't get away with getting a simple, decent blow job in the oval office without the entire world finding out within a month....how and the hell can a group of conspirators keep anything quite for so long?

Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead...... Benjamin Franklin
I tend to agree with you, especially in this day and age when NO ONE can keep a secret from leaking out. The sheer number of conspirators who would have been involved with the 9-11 cover-up would had to have been enormous. And to have been able to keep tabs on everyone and keep them from talking would be impossible to say the least. Leaks come out of all levels of government all the time, potential whistle-blowers are everywhere. I personally don't agree one iota with the truthers regarding 9-11, and pretty much every theory out there has been debunked shortly after emerging.

As the government and its footprint has gotten so large and overly bureaucratic, it grows more and more incompetent every step of the way because of the sheer volume of bodies needed to run things. More people, more bureaucracy, more clusterf*cks. Look at all the things the Feds run and mismanage day in and day out both domestically and internationally.

There is certainly a lot of fringe beliefs out there that tie into ideas of conspiracy. For crying out loud we have TV series dedicated to capturing Bigfoot, ghosts, aliens etc. What are they for the most part, a TV crew following people around on camera with nothing to show for it. But its "entertainment" for certain elements of the population. Its a lot easier to produce things like this than to make factual documentaries about things that take actual research and experts to provide data for. Its not sexy if its real. That's why stations like the History Channel, Discovery Channel, and their ilk have pretty much gone down the crapper over the past decade or so. Everything is reality or conspiracy based programming that's easy to produce and get out there for a lot less cost with little actual educational or informative content.
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