Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Muscle Building and Bodybuilding

Notices

Muscle Building and Bodybuilding Topics related to muscle building, bodybuilding, including training and fullbody workouts. If you are looking for great advice on gaining muscle this forum is for you.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-17-2011, 01:25 PM   #11
bwys61
bwys61
can i get a status
Austin Simply Fit #1
Max Brawn
Points: 9,189, Level: 64 Points: 9,189, Level: 64 Points: 9,189, Level: 64
Activity: 8% Activity: 8% Activity: 8%
 
bwys61's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,113
Training Exp: 15+
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Squat
Fav Supp: Caffeine
My Mood: Amused
Reputation: 26929
bwys61 is a lifting machinebwys61 is a lifting machinebwys61 is a lifting machinebwys61 is a lifting machinebwys61 is a lifting machinebwys61 is a lifting machinebwys61 is a lifting machinebwys61 is a lifting machinebwys61 is a lifting machinebwys61 is a lifting machinebwys61 is a lifting machine


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CLEEPER View Post
My Dead lift is not really on par and I would like to get my back stronger to be able to lock out at the top better on dead lifts with out rounding my back. Is this a good way to do that or just keep dead lifting and looking for progression to let it build all together?
Always change it up. Rack pulls are excellent for upper back lockout. use against bands and with reverse bands. Don't forget the goodmornings also
bwys61 is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Old 07-17-2011, 01:37 PM   #12
big_swede
big_swede
Strongman
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 33,667, Level: 100 Points: 33,667, Level: 100 Points: 33,667, Level: 100
Activity: 37% Activity: 37% Activity: 37%
 
big_swede's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sweden
Posts: 11,600
Training Exp: 5
Training Type: Strongman
Fav Exercise: Cable flyes
Fav Supp: Celltech
My Mood: Yeehaw
Reputation: 453107
big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!big_swede is one with Crom!


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CLEEPER View Post
I just watched the video
clean and jerk technique - Bing Videos

seems this one move could replace squat , dead lift and military press. But doing the squat or dead or military press solo instead of a clean and jerk you could maybe do more weight?
The full clean (and jerk) is a very powerfull move involving the whole body, Oly lifter do the c&j and the snatch as their main lifts and do variations like front and back squats as assistance exercises to the power moves. The c&j has its place in a strength/muscle building workout, but its very much about mastering the technique of the lift, taking alot of time and practice.

I would do powercleans from the ground and hangcleans, and then move over to the c&j if you feel like it.
__________________
big_swede is online now   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 07-17-2011, 02:24 PM   #13
LtL
LtL
is loving life.
SHFW
Max Brawn
Points: 36,486, Level: 100 Points: 36,486, Level: 100 Points: 36,486, Level: 100
Activity: 15% Activity: 15% Activity: 15%
 
LtL's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK
Posts: 11,948
Training Exp: 5 years
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Deadlifts
Fav Supp: Endurance BCAA
My Mood: Cheerful
Reputation: 453705
LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!LtL is one with Crom!


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CLEEPER View Post
My Dead lift is not really on par and I would like to get my back stronger to be able to lock out at the top better on dead lifts with out rounding my back. Is this a good way to do that or just keep dead lifting and looking for progression to let it build all together?
I did rack pulls for a while from just above the knee, they didn't really help my deadlift very much other than to prime my CNS for heavier weights over time. More recently I have done some block pulls to work on specific weaknesses I had with the bar wheeling to the right at around knee height and at lockout but I didn't see much carryover from those either. I like the idea of starting by pulling a bar from high and then working it down but again although this may help you to improve your technique with regard to your back rounding, it may not help your full deadlift depending on where your sticking point is. If, for example, you struggle just off the floor, you may find you can pull a weight from every pin except the floor...

Reading that back it sounds like I don't rate or recommend rack pulls but that's not the case. I just haven't worked out how to make them work for me. In my opinion once your max gets up around 180-200kg's, pulling from the floor taxes your recovery too much so rack pulls are a great way to pull without completely destroying the posterior chain. I'd also add in here that I am NOT a fan of high rep' deadlifts. It's such a long ROM that even the best form tends to break down and it's too tempting to go touch and go which, if you're a powerlifter like me, is not really beneficial.

My next experiment with rack pulls will begin this week. On weeks where I heavy squat on max effort lower, I plan to work up to a heavy double or triple from around knee height to work my lockout.

In summary I would say that rack pulls are great but you need to put some thought into how you use them and to how they might work for you.

LtL
__________________
Proudly sponsored by Muscle and Brawn and Lifestyle Focus.
Ask me about Ark products.
www.liftingtolive.com
LtL is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 07-17-2011, 02:40 PM   #14
CLEEPER
CLEEPER
says like NIke "Just do it"
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 5,871, Level: 49 Points: 5,871, Level: 49 Points: 5,871, Level: 49
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
CLEEPER's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,298
Training Exp: 2-3
Training Type: Classic
Fav Exercise: Behind the neck press
Fav Supp: Fusion 7 Protien
My Mood: Amused
Reputation: 66444
CLEEPER is a lifting beastCLEEPER is a lifting beastCLEEPER is a lifting beastCLEEPER is a lifting beastCLEEPER is a lifting beastCLEEPER is a lifting beastCLEEPER is a lifting beastCLEEPER is a lifting beastCLEEPER is a lifting beastCLEEPER is a lifting beastCLEEPER is a lifting beast
Default

I do 3 sets of five on Friday's When I do them its almost like singles because I come to the floor, Reset and lift again. I want to make sure I keep as good of form as I can as I know this is one lift that if not done correctly can cause serious pain. Thats another reason I have been building it up slowly. Squatter watched my video a while back, I think you may have to on ms and since then I have dropped the weight and building back up.

I will try to get another video Friday when i do my next dead lift session and maybe get it checked for my form. Thanks AL, Chad
__________________
Slowly progressing
CLEEPER is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 07-18-2011, 12:39 PM   #15
Aurik
Aurik
aka Gimpy the 8th dwarf
SFHW = Win
Max Brawn
Points: 5,197, Level: 46 Points: 5,197, Level: 46 Points: 5,197, Level: 46
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
 
Aurik's Avatar
 
Tournaments Won: 1

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Near Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,574
Training Exp: 1-2
Training Type: General Fitness
Fav Exercise: Kettlebells, for now
Fav Supp: XTend
My Mood: Paranoid
Reputation: 19362
Aurik is a dedicated contributorAurik is a dedicated contributorAurik is a dedicated contributorAurik is a dedicated contributorAurik is a dedicated contributorAurik is a dedicated contributorAurik is a dedicated contributorAurik is a dedicated contributorAurik is a dedicated contributorAurik is a dedicated contributorAurik is a dedicated contributor
Default

Cleeper,

There are a lot of very good assistance exercises for your deadlifts. Rack pulls at varying height are one of them -- they will get you used to locking out heavier weights. You'll find that as you reduce the ROM, the amount of weight you can lockout will grow significantly.

A few other good deadlift assistance exercises include:

Pulling from blocks (similar to a rack pull)
Deficit Deadlifts (This works the bottom of the pull hard)
Halting Deadlifts (Pull the bottom of the deadlift until about knee height, and then stop and reset)
Deficit Halting Deadlifts
Dumbbell Rows, "Kroc-Style" (aka, take the heaviest weight you think you can row for say 8 reps, and force out 10-15+ reps. Keep rowing that sucker until it falls out of your hand at the bottom of the eccentric.)
Barbell Shrugs (use straps and hit them hard and heavy. If you're not using at LEAST your deadlift 1RM on these, you're not going heavy enough)

One HUGE advantage of partial ROM deadlift training is that it's not nearly as harsh on your CNS as full-range deadlifts are. Once you start getting sufficiently heavy on deadlifts, it takes MORE than a full-week to properly recover from them.

Hope this helps!
__________________
"Generally people can't squat because they're lacking in the 'lower ab' area. As in they need to grow a set." - LtL
"No one ever got big or strong by lifting lightweights" - Carl1174
Follow my log here: Aurik's Back to Basics log
Valentin Konstantin Platz
Aurik is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 07-18-2011, 01:02 PM   #16
Pull14
Pull14
has no status.
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 3,581, Level: 37 Points: 3,581, Level: 37 Points: 3,581, Level: 37
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
 
Pull14's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Jersey, US
Posts: 1,117
Training Type: Fullbody
Reputation: 32208
Pull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machinePull14 is a lifting machine


Default

Excellent suggestions so far. It would appear that rack pulls for the most part only have carry over for a smaller number of lifters that you would think. If the goal is to bring up your lockout, upper back work is probably the best option. Heavy and high repped dumbbell rows, shrugs/power shurgs, etc. seems to help a lot of people including myself. But back to rack pulls (and possibly block pulls), give them a try and see how it works for you.

As for the comment on the clean and jerk. It is an excellent movement, but it shouldn't replace any of the big lifts. Strength can and will be developed on the movement, but decent numbers also rely heavily on technique. Front squatting 405 is much different than catching 405 in a full clean and squatting it.

Those that master the movement (olympic lifters) still rely heavily on training the back squat, front squat, clean, jerks and push presses. This isn't always the case for the olympic level weightlifter but they have already developed a huge foundation with non-competitive lifts and partials.
Pull14 is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 07-18-2011, 01:05 PM   #17
Carl1174
Carl1174
is trying to take the first step in a long road back...
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 14,417, Level: 77 Points: 14,417, Level: 77 Points: 14,417, Level: 77
Activity: 43% Activity: 43% Activity: 43%
 
Carl1174's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: South Wales - UK
Posts: 4,786
Training Exp: 3-4 years
Training Type: Fullbody
My Mood: Bashful
Reputation: 37394
Carl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machine
Default

cleans are awesome and will help you overall strength in leaps and bounds. Start with power cleans and hang cleans without dropping into the full squat position, then if you can get a bit of coaching and use the full clean. I love the move, but without bumperplates the thought of dropping the thing on the nice floor of the gym kinda puts me off so lately they have been sub par to say the least.

Hig pulls, front squats and OH press will all make the clean stronger and should help with the deadlift (my deadlift went up 20kg in about 6 weeks after adding cleans to my routine )

if you are unsure where to put them in the routine speak to gl like i did, thats what had me ending up doing the eder routine he wrote and its awesome as well

Carl.
Carl1174 is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 07-19-2011, 10:20 PM   #18
MikeM
MikeM
has no status.
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 12,864, Level: 74 Points: 12,864, Level: 74 Points: 12,864, Level: 74
Activity: 13% Activity: 13% Activity: 13%
 
MikeM's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 3,831
Training Exp: in 3rd year
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Food
My Mood: Cheeky
Reputation: 290447
MikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite member
Default

I believe when you are just coming to grips with a major lift, do the major lift as your routine, just drop the weight/reps as neccesary. Rack pulls, partials, etc., for me, are for guys who have hit close to a max limit and need a nudge over that limit. From what I am reading, I don't think you are at your limit. Not even close.

So, pick a day you yank hard, say Mondays. Then Wednesdays recover with light RDLs, or maybe no deads at all. Then Fridays do some stiff deads at 85%or so to complete the week and keep the back active and growing.

As for cleans, I'm with Swede. When you're learning them, do them first. They are technical and you should do them when you are freshest mentally and physically. The weights will be light, so they really are a GREAT warmup.

As you get better with them, it's a judgement call which comes first. I'm getting better at them, but honestly, if I pull some heavy deadlifts and then expect to try to clean some heavy weights, I'm more than bit fearful I will do myself a mischief. I still do them first every time. Static lifts are more brute force anyway. Cleans are very precise, and you can easily hurt yourself even with "light" weights, so don't disrespect them. At least in my opinion.

As for doing CLean and jerks, yeah, the cleans can replace deadlifts if that is your desire, but the jerk does not replace OH pressing. Maybe if you push pressed it (clean and press), but a true jerk motion does not fire the shoulders all that much. So, unless your goal is to be an olympic lifter, I would not do that in place of anything.

The goal of cleans is to fire up your fast twitch muscles to force them to help out your slow twitch (primary) muscles, so the overall muscle mass and CNS function are greater when you do your money lifts, in this case the deadlift.

So, what is your goal? A better deadlift means more deadlifting, plus adding in some cleans to fire up your fast twitch (power) muscles would likely help too.

On the other hand, if you just want to get olympic strong and efficient, do C+Js and Snatches and call it a day.
MikeM is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 07-20-2011, 01:42 AM   #19
Fazc
Fazc
is feeling squirrely!
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77
Activity: 36% Activity: 36% Activity: 36%
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: U.K
Posts: 5,554
Training Exp: 12+ years
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Fav Supp: Chicken
My Mood: Yeehaw
Reputation: 420568
Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!


Default

Rack Pulls will work if for no other reason that to Deadlift big you need to Deadlift often. However the Deadlift typically takes longer to recover from, so variation is perfect there.

I had a lot of luck with a routine made up by a fella called Olly Jackson, which included cycling doubles for the deadlift and assistance as deadlifts from two different heights.

I put it into an excel spreadsheet years ago and it's been on my computer since, i've uploaded it if anyone's interested:

Olly.xls
Fazc is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 07-20-2011, 03:24 AM   #20
Carl1174
Carl1174
is trying to take the first step in a long road back...
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 14,417, Level: 77 Points: 14,417, Level: 77 Points: 14,417, Level: 77
Activity: 43% Activity: 43% Activity: 43%
 
Carl1174's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: South Wales - UK
Posts: 4,786
Training Exp: 3-4 years
Training Type: Fullbody
My Mood: Bashful
Reputation: 37394
Carl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machineCarl1174 is a lifting machine
Default

Nice spread sheet Fazc... saved for a later date

Carl.
Carl1174 is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
dead, improve, lift, pulls, rack


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Deadlift is not a Dead Lift BendtheBar Articles 1 07-31-2012 04:34 PM
Rack pulls Mr.Silverback Powerlifting & Strength Training 17 04-29-2012 12:29 PM
Rack pulls for a stronger deadlift; working through sticking points big_swede Powerlifting & Strength Training 1 04-03-2011 07:11 PM
Rack Pulls CoopDawg Powerlifting & Strength Training 19 11-07-2010 06:18 PM
rack pulls? kman025 Powerlifting & Strength Training 12 02-01-2010 03:15 AM

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.