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Old 05-03-2014, 04:03 PM   #51
Call_Me_Ishmael
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Sorry, but pics like these force me to ask- why is Arnold revered in forums like these as a hero while Weider is vilified as some kind of arch villain?

Am I missing something?

Did Arnold not lend his name/ image to bogus products like this? How is he not a collaborator in Weider's scams?

It just bugs me.
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Old 05-03-2014, 04:56 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Call_Me_Ishmael View Post
Sorry, but pics like these force me to ask- why is Arnold revered in forums like these as a hero while Weider is vilified as some kind of arch villain?

Am I missing something?

Did Arnold not lend his name/ image to bogus products like this? How is he not a collaborator in Weider's scams?

It just bugs me.
Good question.

I guess one difference might be that to begin with, Weider held all the cards, and Arnold held none. If you wanted to make it in bodybuilding in the late 1960s, you pretty much had to work for Weider. Arnold did what every bodybuilder did - pimped themselves out to survive. Weider is more culpable because he was pulling the strings.

Not everything Weider did was terrible, by a long chalk. He helped make affordable weight kits available to tens of thousands of people for example. His nutritional supplements were no better or worse than all the other junk that was available at the time. But for me, there are at least three reasons why he deserves censure:

1. The shameless lies on his non-bodybuilding products. I'm thinking about the martial arts advertising, and the ludicrous claims of having done $400,000 worth of research (if I remember correctly, it's in this thread somewhere). I mean, I know bodybuilding advertising is steeped in deceit, but some of that stuff goes above and beyond the call of marketing.

2. The exploitation of the bodybuilders. Read Dave Draper on this. He paid bodybuilders a pittance - at a time when he was already very successful - had no sense of loyalty to them, tolerated no argument, resisted any attempts from them to improve their conditions and generally behaved like a tyrant.

3. The steadfast pretense for many years that the bodybuilding champions physiques were the result of Weider nutrition and Weider principles, as opposed to genetics, hard work and a boatload of drugs.

Having said that, everything I've heard suggests that Arnold was probably pretty unpleasant in his younger years. For example, he freely admits in his 'Education of a Bodybuilder' that in his late teens he would start fights and beat people up at random just because he felt like it - and especially if there was a girl around. Also, I used to talk a fair bit with an English ex-Mr Olympia competitor who knew Arnold from way back. He told me how in the early days Arnold would refuse to sign autographs without being paid, and once refused to go back on stage for an 'encore' to his guest posing spot unless he was paid an extra 50 in addition to his regular fee. Stuff like that.
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Old 05-03-2014, 05:38 PM   #53
Call_Me_Ishmael
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Good question.

I guess one difference might be that to begin with, Weider held all the cards, and Arnold held none. If you wanted to make it in bodybuilding in the late 1960s, you pretty much had to work for Weider. Arnold did what every bodybuilder did - pimped themselves out to survive. Weider is more culpable because he was pulling the strings.

.
Fair enough. That actually makes a good deal of sense.

Last edited by Call_Me_Ishmael; 05-03-2014 at 05:53 PM.
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