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Old 02-10-2011, 11:38 AM   #11
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And an intermediate lifter will know how to take a new technique and apply it for maximal results. You won't stagnate or stall (much), and your gains and progress will generally be rapid or maximal.
agreed steve.... if you are a true beginner you would not be able to progress or handle new programs and workouts. just because you begin a new program does not put you back at beginner level with your overall training. even when you start a new program you may have quick results at first but you will progress to the point of slow gains very quickly. most likely within a few months time were as a true beginner would have more optimal gains than intermediate with the same start and same program.
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Old 02-10-2011, 11:38 AM   #12
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And an intermediate lifter will know how to take a new technique and apply it for maximal results. You won't stagnate or stall (much), and your gains and progress will generally be rapid or maximal.
That sounds about right.... So how would you descibe a beginner and/or advanced with the same kind of terminology ??

Would be good to have a some what more definitive answer to the 'how do i know if im beginner or intermidiate' question. Although normally if someone asks that they they are pretty much guaranteed to be a beginner...

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Old 02-10-2011, 11:42 AM   #13
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agreed steve.... if you are a true beginner you would not be able to progress or handle new programs and workouts. just because you begin a new program does not put you back at beginner level with your overall training. even when you start a new program you may have quick results at first but you will progress to the point of slow gains very quickly. most likely within a few months time were as a true beginner would have more optimal gains than intermediate with the same start and same program.


You summed it up better than I...
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Old 02-10-2011, 11:51 AM   #14
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agreed steve.... if you are a true beginner you would not be able to progress or handle new programs and workouts. just because you begin a new program does not put you back at beginner level with your overall training. even when you start a new program you may have quick results at first but you will progress to the point of slow gains very quickly. most likely within a few months time were as a true beginner would have more optimal gains than intermediate with the same start and same program.
Thats an excellent summary mate

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Old 02-10-2011, 12:02 PM   #15
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That sounds about right.... So how would you descibe a beginner and/or advanced with the same kind of terminology ??

Would be good to have a some what more definitive answer to the 'how do i know if im beginner or intermidiate' question. Although normally if someone asks that they they are pretty much guaranteed to be a beginner...

Carl
A beginner has no perspective. They have never reached the end of weekly linear progression, or the adding of weekly weight on major compound lifts (squats, bench, deadlift, OHP, other staples). Note: This is the exhausting of adding weekly weight, and not weight in general...they can't add 5 pounds each week. It becomes impossible.)

They do not understand this journey because they have never completed it. They don't know how to properly frame new programs and approaches properly because they lack this perspective.

They want to flip-flop programs or make changes because they have never truly tasted the hard work required to be successful. They do not understand the magic is in progressive resistance and persistence. Every time someone posts a new approach, they run like mad hoping to find the Holy Grail.

Sure, they make have reached the end of the line on decline flyes. This is not the same thing as exhausting progression on squats.

So, it is my opinion that a beginner is a beginner until they have exhausted weekly adding of weight (linear progression) at some point in their life for several major, basic compound lifts. These, to me, include squats, bench press, a row or deadlift, and an overhead press movement. Some bodybuilders don't deadlift, and I respect that.

There may exist some mutants who never squat, and have exhausted front squats or leg presses...so I am not trying to make some exclusionary, elitist rule or form a club. I hope everyone understands this. There is a degree of discernment in the mix here...

But if someone has never exhausted the weekly adding of weight for a major press, overhead press, squat-style compound lift and back row/deadlift, they are a beginner in my book.

I don't care what they move on other lifts, or even if they have exhausted linear progression on 35 other lifts over the past 30 years. If they haven't exhausted LP in these areas, they are still a beginner.

An advanced lifter. An advanced lifter knows they are an advanced lifter. They have been through LP, and rep progression for years. They eat right, train hard and stay persistent. They have taken progression to the point where they have hit real and tangible plateaus. These plateaus have been for months, and not just a 1-3 week stall.

These plateuas don't necessarily mean they haven't added any reps during this time, but rather they know confidently that they are unable to add a rep every workout on major lifts, because they have tried for months on end.

They must get creative and try new things to make any progress. They must have the ability to change programs to fit their specific needs.

An advanced lifter need not know everything, but they must know how to tailor anything to their own needs so that they avoid CNS trauma, injury, etc. This tailoring isn't always immediate...but it will happen over time as a lifter gains a feel for a program/system.

In a bodybuilding context, the advanced lifter label gets more complex. It is easy to approach your max natural potential (within 10 pounds) and still be an intermediate.

One final word...These are only my opinions, and I reserve the right to evolve them.
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:15 PM   #16
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excellent post Steve, but I gotta spread the love

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Old 02-10-2011, 12:20 PM   #17
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once again i completely agree with steve.

i don't think you can truely know what a plateau is unless you are doing compound movements. and if you using them you won't know what a plateau is until you have exhausted every effort to progress without gaining a thing.

i think the beauty of it is that most of us will never fall into the advanced catagorie. it would take decades of training and dedication to reach your bodies natural potential. on some levels we will all be begginers but for the most part i think once you learn how to train effectively to achieve results wether they are minimal results or not i think that is when you have progressed to intermediate. a beginner doesn't truly know what their body is capable of and how to maximize its potential. a intermediate understands concepts of rep scemes and weight progression for obtaining results.
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:38 PM   #18
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I think the beauty of it is that most of us will never fall into the advanced catagorie.
^ True, true and true.



I still have not exhausted one rep increases in many lifts after 24 years. Granted I had some time away from the iron, but I have been back hardcore for 4 years now after my last work-related and life-related layoff.
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Old 02-10-2011, 02:00 PM   #19
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I definitely think I am still a beginner. And completely agree with what everyone is saying.
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Old 02-10-2011, 03:38 PM   #20
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And an intermediate lifter will know how to take a new technique and apply it for maximal results. You won't stagnate or stall (much), and your gains and progress will generally be rapid or maximal.
Agreed. As one learns to know his body over the years he also gets more certain on what works or not.
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