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Old 07-12-2010, 08:24 AM   #1
Violent Volume
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Default Confused rant about Bill Starr and madcow

All right I;m not the world's best typist so over look that.

Wtf is up with Bill Starr and madcow being treated like gospel but yet no one uses the approaches and the full body hard ass workout style they advocate?

**** on some sites you mention full body and a war erupts. But in the next sentence, if a thread starts with Starr or madcow everyone talks about how great these programs are.

What the hell is going on here? Its like lifters are programmed to hate full body routines yet accept Starr and madcow? Its not like madcow doesn't share his opinion on bodybuilding.

Anyone have an opinion on what is going on here? It baffles the **** out of me.
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Old 07-12-2010, 08:46 AM   #2
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One thing I find rather unsettling is that Madcow is allowed to run wild, acting like his approach was the eleventh commandment, yet there are plenty of bodybuilders growing on splits that are the polar opposite of his routines.

I believe this is the reason why he is often ignored. His approach is effective, but it is far from the only way of doing things. And besides, squatting twice or three times per week is a bit much.
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:24 AM   #3
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There's a really long story about all of this, and it begins with, Once apon a time there were two publishers. Joe Weider and Bob Hoffman.

I'll be back. It's a long story anway, and you need your sleep.
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Old 07-12-2010, 10:11 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by glwanabe View Post
There's a really long story about all of this, and it begins with, Once apon a time there were two publishers. Joe Weider and Bob Hoffman.

I'll be back. It's a long story anway, and you need your sleep.
I understand all that. My point is that the same guys that put down full body routines in one breath lift up Starr in the next. It's like there's a list of who's cool and who's not, and it makes no ****ing sense.
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Old 07-12-2010, 10:51 AM   #5
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I understand all that. My point is that the same guys that put down full body routines in one breath lift up Starr in the next. It's like there's a list of who's cool and who's not, and it makes no ****ing sense.
I think you hit on a major point. Lifting is a lot about who is cool and who isn't. Like most things, there isn't a lot of though put into it be the average trainee. It's not that lifters are looking to give bad advice. I think they just realize who the respected names are and don't want to swim against the tide.

I respect Bill Starr, but I don't believe a full body routine is necessary if key lifts are involved. A beginner certainly can squat 2-3 times a week, eat big, and make monster gains. No doubt about that! But because naturals have limited muscle potential, in the end hard work is more important than training routine. A Starr trainee might be faster off the line, but a Weiderite splitter will catch up and relatively quickly. As the Starr lifter experiences slower gains, the Weiderite is still gaining at a nice pace.
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Old 07-12-2010, 11:52 AM   #6
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I think you hit on a major point. Lifting is a lot about who is cool and who isn't. Like most things, there isn't a lot of though put into it be the average trainee. It's not that lifters are looking to give bad advice. I think they just realize who the respected names are and don't want to swim against the tide.

I respect Bill Starr, but I don't believe a full body routine is necessary if key lifts are involved. A beginner certainly can squat 2-3 times a week, eat big, and make monster gains. No doubt about that! But because naturals have limited muscle potential, in the end hard work is more important than training routine. A Starr trainee might be faster off the line, but a Weiderite splitter will catch up and relatively quickly. As the Starr lifter experiences slower gains, the Weiderite is still gaining at a nice pace.
Sorry, I had to bail there awhile ago. Work just will not let me catch my breath anymore.

Mikey has hit on an important aspect of all this. Fullbody or Split, whichever you choose after about 5 years of training they cancel each other out as far as which is faster due to natural limits.

People are sheeple and rarely spend the time to research the actual science of whats happening. Instead the get their head full of Bro science, and follow the advice of people who really don't know what they are talking about. The Weider style split has become THE way to bodybuild, but it really is not optimal on a lot of levels for a lot of people.

There are valid reasons to utilize both systems of training. The important thing is to know why your using the system your using. As far as I'm concerned most people should stay with a fullbody or A/B routine. A split is useful when you have gotten close to your natural limit, or to give yourself a break. Yes you can build muscle with a split, but it may not optimal for you.

Have a plan, and understand why your doing what your doing. There is a huge amount of information in the Casey Butt thread, and in the John Christy thread about this subject.

I've learned a lot from BTB, and others on this site on this subject. There's plenty of info right here on MAB for people to digest.

Crud, gotta go again.
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Old 07-12-2010, 01:17 PM   #7
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Starr has it nailed. Hell all this bull about needing to do exercise after exercise is just trash. Even the bodybuilders that started doing splits pre contest back in the day thought they were helping with cuts and definition which is bull as well.

As the loads become heavier you need to wise up and train smarter. This might involve splitting your training more, but that shouldn't mean adding in every exercise known to man. Adding in addition exercises with no purpose is idiotic.
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Old 07-12-2010, 01:33 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Violent Volume View Post
Starr has it nailed. Hell all this bull about needing to do exercise after exercise is just trash. Even the bodybuilders that started doing splits pre contest back in the day thought they were helping with cuts and definition which is bull as well.

As the loads become heavier you need to wise up and train smarter. This might involve splitting your training more, but that shouldn't mean adding in every exercise known to man. Adding in addition exercises with no purpose is idiotic.
yes!
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:59 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by glwanabe View Post

People are sheeple and rarely spend the time to research the actual science of whats happening. Instead the get their head full of Bro science, and follow the advice of people who really don't know what they are talking about. The Weider style split has become THE way to bodybuild, but it really is not optimal on a lot of levels for a lot of people.
**** yes!

Just because Joe Jackass bodybuilder is big doesn't mean you should use his eating and training plan. Most guys grow despite of their idiocy.

If you want to grow your own set of balls in the gym, you need to stop ****ing reading and start training hard and listening to what your body is saying.
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