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Old 04-19-2014, 05:25 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Call_Me_Ishmael View Post
After a couple of years on splits, I just completed my first full month of full body training. I think I'm pretty adjusted to it now.
Honestly you really aren't. Fullbody is more complicated than it seems. Give yourself a few more months. You are going through an adaption phase right now, and based on some of your other comments are doing pretty good. Don't quit when it starts to get hard, that's where the real work and benefits come into play. You're going to learn a lot in the next few months.

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does a full body workout really need to be three days a week with four rest days?
No, you could also work it twice a week if you are really pushing hard.

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should the goal be maximum recovery time?

Thanks.
This is difficult to answer, as it depends on several aspects of what your doing.


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Originally Posted by Call_Me_Ishmael View Post
Not a beginner, more of an intermediate who was on a split routine and needed a change. Plus I'm huge fan of all the old- school lifters like Reeves, Park, etc. and not a fan of many famous lifters after that era.


Quote:
The tough part will be achieving progressive overload. You have to keep adding weight to the bar in order to grow, which is a very tricky proposition when you're hitting each body part three days a week.
You need to go to the articles section and read all of the articles by Dr. Casey Butt, Phd

Also look for the appreciation thread of him. Lots of good info that answer a lot of questions and give you some solid ground to work from.

Quote:
My plan is to perform different movements per body part in each session.
Stick with a very basic plan to begin with. You have time to for what you're talking about once you have a more fully realized understanding of the process.

Have fun.

Last edited by glwanabe; 04-19-2014 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 04-19-2014, 07:11 PM   #12
Call_Me_Ishmael
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You need to go to the articles section and read all of the articles by Dr. Casey Butt, Phd

Also look for the appreciation thread of him. Lots of good info that answer a lot of questions and give you some solid ground to work from.
I have read that thread, as well as Steve Shaw's interview with him on Muscle and Strength. I've read his stuff on theweighttrainer.com as well.



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Originally Posted by glwanabe View Post
Honestly you really aren't. Fullbody is more complicated than it seems.





Didn't mean to suggest that I have it all figured out or that was FULLY adjusted. But I've gotten to a point where if feels somewhat natural and just kinda makes sense.
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Old 04-19-2014, 07:36 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Call_Me_Ishmael View Post

I'm finding pros and cons with the full body approach.

Working the entire body is something of a challenge, and I leave my workouts with a sense of accomplishment. Also, there is a sense that the body is in harmony that I don't get from a split.
Agreed that there are pro's and cons, but I think the pro's outweigh the cons by a large margin for most lifters. Most people don't understand how to program advanced fullbody work.

Look at Oly lifting programming and how you can schedule cyclical training over not just one or two weeks, but a twelve week period as you get more advanced.



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Originally Posted by Call_Me_Ishmael View Post
Didn't mean to suggest that I have it all figured out or that was FULLY adjusted. But I've gotten to a point where if feels somewhat natural and just kinda makes sense.
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Old 04-19-2014, 08:31 PM   #14
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Agreed that there are pro's and cons, but I think the pro's outweigh the cons by a large margin for most lifters. Most people don't understand how to program advanced fullbody work.

Look at Oly lifting programming and how you can schedule cyclical training over not just one or two weeks, but a twelve week period as you get more advanced.





COOL! Kick some ass!
Thanks.

In addition to Dr. Butt's stuff, I've watched Leroy Colbert's videos on youtube regarding full body workouts.

No, I don't follow training advice from so-called youtube experts. But this guy is a bodybuilding hall of famer from the pre-steroid era. And a lot of what he says seems to mesh with reality, or at least with the reality I see around me.

He claims that

1. Split routines are pushed by guys taking drugs and
2. A natural athlete shouldn't do split routines because they'll eventually burn out and quit.

Vid is below.



No, I don't take all of it as gospel. Yes, I've known plenty of natural lifters who did split routines and looked great.

But Colbert's remarks combined with stuff I see around me, I can't help questioning the long-term sustainability of splits for a natural lifter.

I had a fairly steady training partner about a year ago. We were basically doing the same split- five days a week, one muscle group per session.

He'd been lifting longer than I, and was stronger. I was making steady gains, but he seemed to have hit a wall and over time, he began missing workouts and his lifts went down. He also complained of longstanding injuries.

He blamed missing the gym on family commitments, etc. Maybe that really was the reason. But let's face it- it's easier to blame it on family, work etc. than to simply admit that you're burning out.

People in forums like this will typically respond to such stories by saying it's diet, it's sleep, etc. or that most people just aren't dedicated. That's true if you're talking about a newb who signs up at the local gym and quits after a few months.

I don't think it can accurately explain a serious lifter with great gains over a period of years who gradually slows down and finally quits. Or maybe it can.

But the question entered my mind, is he burning out because he's a natural guy following the routine of a guy who's on juice?

Again, I am not slamming splits. But I have seen a lot of natural lifters who seem to burn out on them. And again, I'm not talking about people who join a gym and quit after a couple of months. I'm talking about serious lifters who have a firm grasp of lifting and nutrition.

Could these things happen on any program? Sure.

Again, I have nothing against splits, and realize that much of this is speculative. But I think I've found sufficient reasons to give the old school approach a try.
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:29 AM   #15
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After years of training I've found that one more day of recovery is more beneficial than one more day of training.
Sometimes less is more.
Very well said.

Even if you're physically fine with it, there's the mental side. What's most important is to stick with it. However good or bad your programme, diet, etc, if you stick with it long enough you'll get some results.

With that in mind, I would rather someone felt, "I'm not doing enough!" and eager to go next time, than "oh god, again?"
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:57 PM   #16
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After a couple of years on splits, I just completed my first full month of full body training. I think I'm pretty adjusted to it now and will continue with it for at least another month or so.

I have a question: does a full body workout really need to be three days a week with four rest days?

Or can it simply be every other day?

In other words, would it be okay to workout Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and then hit it again Sunday?

Or should the goal be maximum recovery time?

Thanks.
If you're a pretty new beginner you go every other day until it just doesn't work. Every 11-12 days you would get in one more training session. Once you have to reset the weight a couple times just going to 3x/week is best as many have said due to accumulated fatigue. The thing you have to remember is volume plays a large factor too, so if it's on the lower end you can do every other day longer as long as you're schedule/recovery permits it.
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Old 04-21-2014, 06:01 PM   #17
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If you're a pretty new beginner you go every other day until it just doesn't work. Every 11-12 days you would get in one more training session. Once you have to reset the weight a couple times just going to 3x/week is best as many have said due to accumulated fatigue. The thing you have to remember is volume plays a large factor too, so if it's on the lower end you can do every other day longer as long as you're schedule/recovery permits it.
As I said, I'm not a new beginner.

More an intermeidiate gone stale on a split and now changing things up.

Thanks for the feedback.


Basically, I'm sticking to three days a week.

For about two weeks I did Mon Wed Fri, Sun Tues Thurs but I could feel myself burning out.

The last two weeks I've strictly followed the MWF format and have gone into my workouts with plenty of energy and I'm adding weight to the bar/ achieving progressive overload.

So for now, I'm doing full body three days a week.
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