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Old 10-24-2013, 12:18 PM   #11
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Barbarian Brothers, wasn't it? I'm also trying to remember where I first heard (well, *read*) that quote...

Strikes me as true, anyway (that thing about it being under-recovery).


edit: And there it is, in the OP. Ha.
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Old 11-09-2013, 10:48 AM   #12
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The more important issue is NOT if over-training is real but what is optimal for your situation. Sure, everybody can progressively push themselves harder but you have to know when you really aren't getting much of a return on your investment. You can run marathons and not over-train, but what effect will that have on your muscle building goals?
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Old 11-09-2013, 02:24 PM   #13
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I am more along the line of thought that the culprit is most often under-recovering. But that, like most everything else, is a very individualized situation. Everyone will require different levels of exertion and recovery to reach their optimal performance.

I tried to train in my younger days with little or no progress. While I was lifting, I was always either playing sports or doing insane amounts of cardio in the Marines. I had actually convinced myself at one time, despite always being a large dude, that I was a "hardgainer".

When I decided to make this last run at lifting I did a lot of research. This time I convinced myself that I had previously been overtraining.

After analyzing everything I have done this time, and the progress that I have been able to show in just 6 months of training, Strongly believe that I was under-recovering. I changed a lot of things this time around. Though it was unintentional, almost everything I changed had to do with recovery.

I (massively) increased my calories instead of reducing them. I became anal about getting 8-10 hours of sleep EVERY night. I don't train if I feel unrecovered. I don't skip the workout, I just move it back by a day.

I consistently train above 85% of my 1rm weights on nearly every exercise. I have had no problems this time around. In fact, in just six months of training, my current bench press is well above my previous best SQUAT (and I won't even mention how much it is over my previous best bench press, lol).

So, I believe that it comes down to recovery. Some folks require more recovery or less exertion than others but, when you find where YOU need to be, it will be golden.

It all comes down to "How much can you do and still be able to recover from it before your next session?". It will be different for everyone but that, in my opinion, is the magic formula. It is a three pronged attack that requires one to "study" themselves and learn how to read the signs.

That's just how the fat guy sees it. lol
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Old 11-09-2013, 05:18 PM   #14
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A lot of good thoughts here.

My main thoughts were:

A.} In view of the fact that my own early training was highly Frustrating, why did I never at least try the "Super Volume and Intensity" approach?

And,

B.} Just exactly how is such a Training Programmed?

I doubt that even the most fiendish "Over Trainer" just goes into the gym and trains randomly like someone trying to kill a snake in high weeds with naught but a long Willow Switch.

And y'all answered that fairly well—just sayin'...

A few Bodybuilders are what they call "Instinctive Trainers"—never having a set schedule and just selecting weights, exercises, sets and reps as the spirit moves them.

I never heard of very many Strength athletes doing this.

An article that I read many years ago that contained an interview with Vasily Alekseyev seemed to suggest that he trained that way.

Reading some of Paul Anderson's stuff leaves me uncertain.

Ken Waller was the only top Bodybuilder that I know of who used that system.

Supposedly the Barbarian Brothers not only trained Instinctively while in the gym, but also decided when to go and how long to stay based on Whimsy.

They said they might take a long brutal workout for 4 hours one day and come back for four short workouts the next.

They said that they would sometimes come in and just do one exercise and leave.

They also had an E-Z Curl bar, looked like about 120 Pounds of plates showing—in the photo—and a few Spring gadgets at home that they used to pump their arms occasionally as the spirit moved them.

Of course they didn't have jobs and apparently drove around at random getting into scofflaws in between gym visits all day long.

We should all be so blessed...

Personally, I did try "Instinctive Training" once. I like routine and resist change. I soon settled into "Squats first, Bench Press, Press B/N, Curls...etc."

The only difference was I wasn't writing everything down.

Writing stuff down is a good thing.



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Old 11-09-2013, 05:45 PM   #15
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Lots of good things here. Controlled overreaching is a useful tool on programs like Smolov etc. Also I'm pretty sure CT uses synthol or some other SEOs in his arms so he needs a lot of volume in them to bring out the size.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:53 PM   #16
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I believe there is such as thing as overtraining. Back in my first 9 months of lifting I foolishly did a very high volume bodypart split taking every set to failure and frequently beyond failure. You can imagine the damage training this way for something such as chest on exercises such as bench press, incline press and dips for a total of 24 sets with no chemical advantages. Of course, everyone is different but this was way too much for me. This resulted in very sore muscles and damaged joints and extreme fatigue, despite getting adequate amounts of sleep and food. Unfortunately I was part of the 'more is better' mantra. I learned my lesson.

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Old 11-20-2013, 06:56 AM   #17
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I can only speak for my own life & experience which indicates that I can't get enough sleep or eat enough to do a 5-6 day week lifting schedule. Whether it's overtraining or underrecovering doesn't really matter when it beats the shit out of me instead of building me up. 3 days a week seems to be my sweet spot and I can make 1 of those a crazy 90-120 minute session and do from time to time.
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