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Old 09-28-2013, 10:10 PM   #11
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A gun is a tool plain and simple. They are not evil or bad they are simply a tool. Cain killed Abel with a rock.....

Since the beginnings of man, if a person has been determined to cause harm, they have found a way.

There are millions of responsible gun owners in the US ( and around the world) who have never acted ilegally or incorrectly, with a firearm.

Stop blaming the gun for the actions of a bad person.

Before guns slaughter was done with the sword and spear- before that, with the arrow and rock.... all tools. They can do good things or bad but they do neither on thier own.

If a person uses a gun to do harm punish the person - not the responsible gun owners who follow the law(s).
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Old 09-29-2013, 06:03 AM   #12
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Yes I was attacking the UK, a nation you and many others on this forum live in. It offends me that the overbearing government made it impossible for her to have any choise whatsoever in whether to defend herself or not. She was truly helpless.
That's really interesting.

I would be willing to bet good money that if she was asked about gun control in the UK, she wouldn't be in favour of changing the laws. Why? Because I think it's fair to say that's how the majority of people think over here. Especially the professional classes. There might be an issue about extra protection for an ex-PM's daughter, but that's a different matter.

So if the government acts in accordance with the will of the people, and the will of the majority is to have strict laws on gun control, then it's tough to see how the government is being overbearing.

For most people over here, the right to bear arms is a complete non-issue. A common response you might get is 'But why would you want to own a gun anyway? What's the point?' You might as well ask about the freedom to own a flamethrower, or to drive geese down the high street.

(I'm definitely guilty of trying to represent the average Brit on this post, but I bet I'm not too far wide of the mark).

As for being offended on someone else's behalf, I totally get that. I do it myself all the time.
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Old 09-29-2013, 06:42 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by SCStrong View Post
A gun is a tool plain and simple. They are not evil or bad they are simply a tool. Cain killed Abel with a rock.....

Since the beginnings of man, if a person has been determined to cause harm, they have found a way.

There are millions of responsible gun owners in the US ( and around the world) who have never acted ilegally or incorrectly, with a firearm.

Stop blaming the gun for the actions of a bad person.

Before guns slaughter was done with the sword and spear- before that, with the arrow and rock.... all tools. They can do good things or bad but they do neither on thier own.

If a person uses a gun to do harm punish the person - not the responsible gun owners who follow the law(s).
Guns are not 'just a tool'. Guns are a tool that make it extremely easy for anyone to take any other person's life if they fancy it. Next people are going to say that nuclear weapons are just a tool.
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Old 09-29-2013, 08:28 AM   #14
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That's really interesting.

I would be willing to bet good money that if she was asked about gun control in the UK, she wouldn't be in favour of changing the laws. Why? Because I think it's fair to say that's how the majority of people think over here. Especially the professional classes. There might be an issue about extra protection for an ex-PM's daughter, but that's a different matter.

So if the government acts in accordance with the will of the people, and the will of the majority is to have strict laws on gun control, then it's tough to see how the government is being overbearing.

For most people over here, the right to bear arms is a complete non-issue. A common response you might get is 'But why would you want to own a gun anyway? What's the point?' You might as well ask about the freedom to own a flamethrower, or to drive geese down the high street.

(I'm definitely guilty of trying to represent the average Brit on this post, but I bet I'm not too far wide of the mark).

As for being offended on someone else's behalf, I totally get that. I do it myself all the time.
I agree with this.

I am an average Brit and Iwouldn't want our laws on bearing arms, or owning a gun changed.

I would say that the average Brit would agree. Some people here do have guns for recreaction, work etc and thats fine, but the thought of the general population being given the right to buy a gun if they want to, for whater use, frankly terrifies the shit out of me.

Do I think the USA are 'wrong' for their gun laws, NO. It is obviously what most of the population want, it is what they are used to. I wouldnt bash the USA for their gun laws, or culture, so I really dont understand why the UK has seemed to have a bashing on ours in this thread...

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Old 09-29-2013, 08:53 AM   #15
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I wouldnt bash the USA for their gun laws, or culture

Carl.
You wouldn't, but I must admit that I have. Well 'bash' is a bit strong; 'comment on' maybe.
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Old 09-29-2013, 11:37 AM   #16
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Thank you for the honest responses.

Perhaps if I had been raised somewhere else, its possible I would be able to see it from a different perspective. But I haven't found any good reason to not own some guns.


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Guns are not 'just a tool'. Guns are a tool that make it extremely easy for anyone to take any other person's life if they fancy it. Next people are going to say that nuclear weapons are just a tool.
This here made me laugh out loud.


Would there be less crimes if guns were outlawed, its possible. But that doesn't change the fact that there still is crime all around the world, so pardon the cliche but, fight fire with a bigger fire.
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Old 09-29-2013, 12:28 PM   #17
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...y-muggers.html





Well whoop tee frickin doo, somebody obtained a handgun, despite them being outlawed, and used it to commit a crime. What ever shall we do about that.


Sorry to beat a dead horse, but when will these poor mofos realize that firearms can equalize a little girl with two thugs.
I find the way you approached this to be offensive and condescending...it could have been handled differently.



So, on to the actual events themselves...Doesn't the story sound just a little too weird/suspect?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24157161


On both occasions a firearm was seen but not used - no shots were fired.

"None of the victims were injured and nothing was stolen during the incidents," the spokesman added
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Old 09-29-2013, 01:40 PM   #18
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I should have let this brew beforehand...I regret using her situation as a way to vent. Although I do not take back anything I've said.

It is weird/suspect.
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Old 09-29-2013, 02:37 PM   #19
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Guns are not 'just a tool'. Guns are a tool that make it extremely easy for anyone to take any other person's life if they fancy it. Next people are going to say that nuclear weapons are just a tool.
They are, they are nothing more than mechanical, chemical, and electrical components without, a mind of their own.

Can they do great harm? Yes.

But outlawing a machine, a tool, a piece of metal is not going to eliminate them. It will simply take them out of the hands of those who already follow the law and use the tools responsibly.

If bad guys want to do bad things; no law, will stand in the way. Otherwise, we would not be having this conversation.

If you do not like or want a gun - do not own one.

The American Constitution guaruntees the right to keep and bear arms.

People in the UK and people in the US have different opinions on guns - That's ok.

In recent times, heavy gun control was put down due in no small part to the people of the US voicing their support for the second amendment to their representitives. We want to keep our guns.

My original statement stands; A gun is a tool if put into the hands of evil men, it does evil things...... blame the cause not the implement.

I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy..... I choose to have the right to defend myself and my loved ones as oppossed to depending on a government to do it for me. I accept the risk that comes with this decision - understanding that life has dangers and they will never, all be taken away.
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Old 09-29-2013, 06:13 PM   #20
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Going by some of the logic in this thread we should just legalise absolutely everything because the deeds aren't evil, it's the evil people who do it. Even though we have strong evidence suggesting that the misuse heavily outweighs the situations in which it is actually properly used.

brb legalising murder so that people can better 'defend themselves'
brb legalising tanks so people can drive to work safely
brb legalising theft so that wealth can be distributed move evenly

It's not your call to make who gets shot and who doesn't. Does that sound f*cked up in the situation wherein you're getting robbed or someone has broken into your house? Perhaps. Should we just give everyone guns based on this miniscule percentage of cases where gun legislation would've made a difference? No. You can not argue for the legalisation of guns by only dicussing a small fraction of possible outcomes. What about people who are going to get shot accidentally because people are clumsy? What about people who are going to do something they regret because they were drunk? What about people who are, in a fit of rage, are going to shoot their spouse? Are we just, for convenience, going to pretend things like that won't happen?

And just some food for thought, whether or not you have a gun in your purse isn't going to matter when someone tries to rob you. They'll still have the element of surprise and more likely than not they will outnumber you.

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