Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > General > General Board

Notices

General Board You can talk about anything here. Life, sports, rants, whatever.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-19-2013, 12:59 PM   #1
J_Byrd
J_Byrd
is the bomb!
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 20,952, Level: 91 Points: 20,952, Level: 91 Points: 20,952, Level: 91
Activity: 12% Activity: 12% Activity: 12%
 
J_Byrd's Avatar
 
Spider Solitare Four Suit Champion! Pick Up Sticks 3D Champion!
Tournaments Won: 3

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: St. Johns, FL
Posts: 5,635
Training Exp: 15
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Squat
Reputation: 421510
J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!


Default Mass search of students bags

Today an assistant principle along with high school student interns conducted a search of all 6th grade students bags on campus. The search was looking for a students missing tablet.

I believed it to be an unlawful search and a direct violation of the 4th amendment. When I said that, it feel on deaf ears. I feel like this was wrong on so many levels.

I am unhappy with my current job, but I dont feel like I am over reacting. I would be upset if this was my child.

Sorry just ranting.
__________________
Best meet lifts: 1040squat, 705 bench, 730 deadlift
Best total: 1040-680-730=2450
Pro Total@308

Proudly sponsored by

http://muscleandbrawn.com

http://bigworkoutplan.com/

http://www.andersonpowerlifting.com/Default.asp


"This is about strength, not getting a 10.0 form score from the Russian judge" Steve Shaw
J_Byrd is online now   Reply With Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Old 11-19-2013, 01:01 PM   #2
fenrisulfr
fenrisulfr
Tired of lifting these baby weights.
Peanut Butter Member
Max Brawn
Points: 10,438, Level: 67 Points: 10,438, Level: 67 Points: 10,438, Level: 67
Activity: 47% Activity: 47% Activity: 47%
 
fenrisulfr's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,745
Training Exp: 3.5
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Chicken breast
My Mood: Tired
Reputation: 339630
fenrisulfr is an elite memberfenrisulfr is an elite memberfenrisulfr is an elite memberfenrisulfr is an elite memberfenrisulfr is an elite memberfenrisulfr is an elite memberfenrisulfr is an elite memberfenrisulfr is an elite memberfenrisulfr is an elite memberfenrisulfr is an elite memberfenrisulfr is an elite member
Default

What'd they find? The fact that it is a school, I think you give up your right to refuse a search.

No reason to have a tablet at school anyway. Maybe its a sign of the times.

Last edited by fenrisulfr; 11-19-2013 at 01:04 PM.
fenrisulfr is online now   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 11-19-2013, 01:05 PM   #3
5kgLifter
5kgLifter
loves teddy bears...
Kettlebells' Angel !!!!
Max Brawn
Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94
Activity: 11% Activity: 11% Activity: 11%
 
5kgLifter's Avatar
 
Checkers Champion! Mario Kart Extreme! Champion! NG Holdem Champion! Javelin Champion! Mouse Batting Champion! Keno Champion!
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13,928
Training Type: Other
My Mood: Cynical
Reputation: 646483
5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!
Default

Over in the UK, I believe kids would be asked to empty their bags out for a search to be done, at least, that would have occurred years ago but not sure how they would approach such a situation now; it would probably be in the same manner.

Tann might know.


Two different countries, I know, but I guess they were trying to find the item before it completely disappeared, possibly...I doubt they found it though.
__________________
36.5 kg /80.3 lb Middle-Finger DL (right hand)...
5kgLifter is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 11-19-2013, 01:08 PM   #4
J_Byrd
J_Byrd
is the bomb!
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 20,952, Level: 91 Points: 20,952, Level: 91 Points: 20,952, Level: 91
Activity: 12% Activity: 12% Activity: 12%
 
J_Byrd's Avatar
 
Spider Solitare Four Suit Champion! Pick Up Sticks 3D Champion!
Tournaments Won: 3

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: St. Johns, FL
Posts: 5,635
Training Exp: 15
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Squat
Reputation: 421510
J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fenrisulfr View Post
What'd they find? The fact that it is a school, I think you give up your right to refuse a search.

No reason to have a tablet at school anyway. Maybe its a sign of the times.
Nothing, and it's not about refusing. You can not conduct a search without direct suspension that something illegal is in that bag. No way they thought all 200 kids stole something.

"1. Can school officials search my belongings?
Sometimes. Outside the school, law enforcement officers need to obtain a warrant from a magistrate before they can conduct a search. To get a warrant, an officer needs "probable cause" -- really solid grounds -- to believe that a search will reveal evidence of wrongdoing.
There are obvious difficulties in applying the Fourth Amendment to students in a school setting. During the 1980s, when drugs and weapons were seen as growing problems in schools, officials complained that the need to obtain a warrant before conducting a search made it impossible to keep schools running smoothly and safely.
In 1985, the Supreme Court ruled for the first time on the subject of school searches, and decided that the Fourth Amendment does apply to students, after a fashion. the case was New Jersey v. T.L.O., involving the search of a purse belonging to a 14-year-old girl accused of smoking in the school bathroom. The Court ruled that school officials do not need a warrant or probable cause to search a student's belongings. Instead, students could be searched on "reasonable suspicion" -- more than a mere hunch -- that they have violated a law or school rule. To be constitutional, a search had to meet a "two-pronged test" -- authorities have to have a sound reason to expect evidence of wrongdoing to be found, and the searches must not be excessively intrusive.
If there is an issue of public safety at stake, such as a report that a student is carrying a gun, courts will generally uphold a search as reasonable. On the other hand, most courts have found that strip searches are for the most part not reasonable, and that they should especially not be carried out on young students. Metal detectors, as long as they are not used on all students , probably do not violate due process. But singling out certain students or types of students for metal detector searches may violate the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment."


http://aclum.org/sites/all/files/edu...dentRights.pdf
__________________
Best meet lifts: 1040squat, 705 bench, 730 deadlift
Best total: 1040-680-730=2450
Pro Total@308

Proudly sponsored by

http://muscleandbrawn.com

http://bigworkoutplan.com/

http://www.andersonpowerlifting.com/Default.asp


"This is about strength, not getting a 10.0 form score from the Russian judge" Steve Shaw
J_Byrd is online now   Reply With Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Share with Facebook
Old 11-19-2013, 02:21 PM   #5
MikeM
MikeM
has no status.
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 12,864, Level: 74 Points: 12,864, Level: 74 Points: 12,864, Level: 74
Activity: 13% Activity: 13% Activity: 13%
 
MikeM's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 3,831
Training Exp: in 3rd year
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Food
My Mood: Cheeky
Reputation: 290547
MikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite memberMikeM is an elite member
Default

I'm with you JB. Totally unreasonable and shouldn't be allowed. That said, it's likely state laws that take precedence in your case. Schools are typically under state jurisdiction as opposed to federal, so it depends on your state legislature as to what is legal or not. COnstitution ony comes into play after state courts have ruled and it's been appealed to federal court.

Lockers, desks, closets, I'm OK with searching. No expectation of privacy in school property. Book bags, no. You have a reasonable expectation of privacy of your clothes and bags unless specific probable cause, and it would have to be a doozy like guns, drugs of a sale-able amount, etc. Not merely missing property.

I would be upset too. I would be really upset if some student was found with contraband outside the search parameters and punished because of a blanket search like you're talking about. I would fight that in court if necessary.
__________________
I am Anton Zdravko Martin!

Best meet lifts: Sq 150 Kg (330 lb), Bench 120 Kg (264), DL 160 (352) @89 Kg (197)
Best gym lifts: Sq 375, Bench 280 (pause), DL 385 @205 or less
Goals: 3/4/5
Goals beyond my wildest dreams, 600 Kg raw total, 200/160/240

Hack away at anything which isn't essential. Do what you love, and do it often. Fazc.

Everything competes for recovery so more assistance is not always the best idea. miked96
MikeM is offline   Reply With Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Share with Facebook
Old 11-19-2013, 02:28 PM   #6
J_Byrd
J_Byrd
is the bomb!
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 20,952, Level: 91 Points: 20,952, Level: 91 Points: 20,952, Level: 91
Activity: 12% Activity: 12% Activity: 12%
 
J_Byrd's Avatar
 
Spider Solitare Four Suit Champion! Pick Up Sticks 3D Champion!
Tournaments Won: 3

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: St. Johns, FL
Posts: 5,635
Training Exp: 15
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Squat
Reputation: 421510
J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!J_Byrd is one with Crom!


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
I'm with you JB. Totally unreasonable and shouldn't be allowed. That said, it's likely state laws that take precedence in your case. Schools are typically under state jurisdiction as opposed to federal, so it depends on your state legislature as to what is legal or not. COnstitution ony comes into play after state courts have ruled and it's been appealed to federal court.

Lockers, desks, closets, I'm OK with searching. No expectation of privacy in school property. Book bags, no. You have a reasonable expectation of privacy of your clothes and bags unless specific probable cause, and it would have to be a doozy like guns, drugs of a sale-able amount, etc. Not merely missing property.

I would be upset too. I would be really upset if some student was found with contraband outside the search parameters and punished because of a blanket search like you're talking about. I would fight that in court if necessary.
I printed off the handbook and gave it to them. I was correct, and basically what you said is the law. The biggest thing to me was that other students were allowed to search students. That is insane to me!
__________________
Best meet lifts: 1040squat, 705 bench, 730 deadlift
Best total: 1040-680-730=2450
Pro Total@308

Proudly sponsored by

http://muscleandbrawn.com

http://bigworkoutplan.com/

http://www.andersonpowerlifting.com/Default.asp


"This is about strength, not getting a 10.0 form score from the Russian judge" Steve Shaw
J_Byrd is online now   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 11-19-2013, 02:48 PM   #7
SCStrong
SCStrong
has a burning desire to be bigger.
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 3,970, Level: 40 Points: 3,970, Level: 40 Points: 3,970, Level: 40
Activity: 20% Activity: 20% Activity: 20%
 
SCStrong's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Inside the dark abyss of my mind
Posts: 1,640
Training Exp: One more than last year
Training Type: Fullbody
Fav Exercise: The ones that make me cry
Fav Supp: Beer; Milk is for Babies
My Mood: Aggressive
Reputation: 106547
SCStrong is a master memberSCStrong is a master memberSCStrong is a master memberSCStrong is a master memberSCStrong is a master memberSCStrong is a master memberSCStrong is a master memberSCStrong is a master memberSCStrong is a master memberSCStrong is a master memberSCStrong is a master member
Default

we live in a sad, sad place - thanks for speaking out, JB
__________________
The only rep that counts is the next one.
SCStrong is online now   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 11-19-2013, 03:37 PM   #8
EliteDreams
EliteDreams
Anything worth doing is worth overdoing
Moderation is for cowards
Max Brawn
Points: 12,656, Level: 73 Points: 12,656, Level: 73 Points: 12,656, Level: 73
Activity: 41% Activity: 41% Activity: 41%
 
EliteDreams's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: N Ga Mountains
Posts: 5,279
Training Exp: Started 5/2/11
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: PRs
Fav Supp: Steak
My Mood: Asleep
Reputation: 419419
EliteDreams is one with Crom!EliteDreams is one with Crom!EliteDreams is one with Crom!EliteDreams is one with Crom!EliteDreams is one with Crom!EliteDreams is one with Crom!EliteDreams is one with Crom!EliteDreams is one with Crom!EliteDreams is one with Crom!EliteDreams is one with Crom!EliteDreams is one with Crom!
Default

Im with JB and Mike. Pretty ridiculous that a possible crime caused a guilty-until-proven-innocent situation.
__________________
"Thats you, a new creation born of tragedy, but capable of greatness." - jdmalm123


The gates of hell have been unlocked, headstones pushed aside!
EliteDreams is online now   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 11-19-2013, 03:41 PM   #9
5kgLifter
5kgLifter
loves teddy bears...
Kettlebells' Angel !!!!
Max Brawn
Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94
Activity: 11% Activity: 11% Activity: 11%
 
5kgLifter's Avatar
 
Checkers Champion! Mario Kart Extreme! Champion! NG Holdem Champion! Javelin Champion! Mouse Batting Champion! Keno Champion!
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13,928
Training Type: Other
My Mood: Cynical
Reputation: 646483
5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Byrd View Post
I printed off the handbook and gave it to them. I was correct, and basically what you said is the law. The biggest thing to me was that other students were allowed to search students. That is insane to me!
They were way out of line because they went against their own written rules, to begin with, as you posted above (the rules) but to get students to search students is even worse and out of order on a level that is incomprehensible in terms of adults that should have known (or did know) better.
__________________
36.5 kg /80.3 lb Middle-Finger DL (right hand)...
5kgLifter is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 11-19-2013, 03:41 PM   #10
Hunterace
Hunterace
is mental!!!
I'm quitting next week!
Max Brawn
Points: 17,314, Level: 83 Points: 17,314, Level: 83 Points: 17,314, Level: 83
Activity: 4% Activity: 4% Activity: 4%
 
Hunterace's Avatar
Default

Wow, wonder if there will be some lawsuits? As a parent I'd be pissed!
__________________
~~~Second Amendment~~~
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

~~~2 Chronicles 15:7 ~~~
But as for you, be strong and do not give up, for your work will be rewarded.

!!!MY HEAD HURTS!!!
My Training Log
http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/sho...734#post494734
Hunterace is online now   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Reply

Bookmarks


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My Students are great! J_Byrd General Board 13 03-10-2013 08:57 AM
Search for Strength and Health BendtheBar Articles 0 09-10-2012 02:18 PM
Mass gains on Mass Addiction?? JoeyV123 Nutrition, Diet and Supplements 82 02-16-2010 02:02 PM
Protein Bars can Protect Students from Unnatural School Lunchtimes. Dork McSchlorp General Board 0 10-14-2009 02:40 PM

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.