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Old 06-10-2013, 09:00 PM   #11
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it's people who are more concerned about winning competitions than doing things right and subjective judging that ruins it. i'd rather lose and know i did it right than win looking like shit. i can't believe you would settle for looking like crap just for a plastic trophy and a few dollars. i'm no sellout, brother.

i'm not the only one, either. i know a powerlifter down here who competes in 181 and uses the same form.
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:25 PM   #12
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When i did high bar, i also did a narrower stance, a different depth, etc...

You emphasize different things with different set ups... do both or do the one that hurts less!

Explosive movement transfers to sports or adding muscle and then training it for power.... training heavy and slow will not, by itself, do anything special for sports...
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:26 PM   #13
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I've done both kinds a bit, and haven't found the world of difference between them. For the record, I can - and have tended to - squat *very* deep, even going well below parallel using the low bar technique (though not with a wide stance, as I don't like to do that).

But then, I don't have much experience so far, and who knows - there could be the world of difference! But I've seen strong guys squatting heavy both ways, and strong girls too, some of each being big as well.

In the end, I think you just have to find what suits you best. Experiment with bar placement, and stance. Whichever kind you do, I would recommend balancing the leg work, of course, which often means adding in some hamstring hammering. But I don't doubt you know this already. Lots of people in sports that do either kind of squat, or both, not to mention fronts. Again, just see what works well.
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:36 AM   #14
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Depth has nothing to do with bar placement in my opinion. I used to do high bar and was sketchy on depth from time to time, now I do low bar and have never seen a red light, but my overall form has gotten better too. I don't care where you put the bar, you get your knees out of the way, you'll hit depth.

As for the question, yes you have to experiment what works best for you, but don't assume high bar means a lower squat number. I can flat out tell you I was a high bar squatter maxing out at around 335 until this past Christmas when I switched to low bar and jumped up to a 375 max after a couple months.

All that matters is what bar placement allows for your best squat. Don't assume it will go up or down if you change from high to low or vice versa.

I believe either will translate into athletics as simply getting stronger will help there. Also neither is inherently "safer" on your spine. Depends on you and your particular physiology. That said, if you are "spot"ing with your low back and I take that to mean you are good morning the weight up, then that will come back to haunt you as you go up in weight. The more upright/arched your back, the better you will be as you progress.

Rock on.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:50 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by SecondsOut View Post
it's difficult for me to consider anything other than this a proper squat: The best squats i have ever seen (Idalberto Arranda) - YouTube

i've read Louie Simmons's defenses of wide stance squats, and i know it's a topic that generates a lot of rage among lifters, but i have to say that i rarely ever see a powerlifter who squats well -- even though they're very strong in all the right places. i don't think I'll ever be convinced that they don't simply find that form/depth too unpleasant. i think "reluctance to squat deep" is disguised as "this form works for me" or "this form allows me to squat more pounds."

and if you think big dudes can't squat huge weights with "close stance," "high bar" form -- those terms are silly to me -- check this out:

706 pound Real RAW Squat / 320 Kg - YouTube

i know this sounds like i'm sucking up, but BendtheBar is literally the first big powerlifter i've seen who seems to truly respect the proper squat. even Ed Coan seems to fold his upper body to create an illusion of depth in every competition of his i've seen. everyone talks about "parallel." it's bullshit. proper squat is all the way down. you don't even have to use the words "all the way down" because "squat" already means that.

You sir are full of shit! Those are good squats but they are no better than others without that form. Folding your body to create the illusion of depth tells me that you have no clue what you are talking about. From the front it makes you look deeper, but from the side its a different story. I'm a lean forward type of squatter and have never had trouble with depth. The problem with leaning forward is that the more you lean, the more your hips want to rise. That means you have to actually take a longer ROM to hit depth. For most a slight lean is the most powerful position for them. There are exceptions however.

Nobody gives a shit about your 'proper' form. Everybodys form is different. And taking it all the way down is bullshit too! What does that do for you? How can you judge 'all the way down'? The point is to move the most weight possible. If that is not your goal then you need to step away from powerlifting. You don't get bonus points for squatting 300 lbs with 'perfect' form! If you want to be judged on perfect form then you into figure skating.
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:31 AM   #16
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I don't understand the trend of belittling any squat that isn't high bar and bounced off the calves. In a competition you have to hit legal depth with crease of hip lower than knee. You don't get bonus points for going lower or "looking good". Squat in the way that allows you to move the most weight whilst also maintaining legal depth and not injuring yourself. What that way is will take some experimentation to find out.
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Old 06-11-2013, 12:49 PM   #17
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Illusion of depth? Okay.

Back to reality.

I think for most sporting uses I highly doubt it matters where you put the bar. WL need certain tech as its relevent to their competitive lifts. Powerlifters use whatever tech gives them the biggest squat within the rules of the sport. Anyone else just needs to pick a movement that they can do well and get stronger in. This is often a more 'moderate' style of tech.

I also don't think 'depth' is that big an issue. Train to the depth your current mobility allows. Work at the mobility to try and increase depth.
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:39 PM   #18
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I switched to HB last year at the advice of Steve, who thought it would help control my forward lean. Low and behold, it worked. I was leaning excessively. I still lean a bit on occasion on heavy singles or doubles, but it is much less than before. I also have a very iffy lower back with some disc degeneration and arthritis, and HB has definitely not negatively affected that. In my case it has been fine for my spine.

As far as depth goes, I bury my lighter reps simply because I can and enjoy it. I also like to know I have the confidence and ability to bury anything should the need arise. This paid off for me last November at a big meet. I got called for depth on my first squat attempt. I was crushed somewhat and I strained my right quad to boot. The advice given to me by everyone there was to bury my next attempt. I am so glad I had the confidence to do it, despite a bum quad, since I have buried that kind of weight before. Boom, second and even third attempt was so deep, i actually got complimented on it by the judge.

Ideally, I just want to get to a solid depth at a meet, in order to avoid doing any excessive work and for energy conservation, but it is so awesome to have the ability to bury anything.
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:49 PM   #19
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Just see to that your squats are fast as lightning, high bar or low bar does not really matter I think. The wrestlers I know do alot of box squats and powercleans and powersnatches. Hip strength is of importance when trying to get a person airborne as you know =)
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:49 PM   #20
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Great squat.

He could have gone deeper though so technically not a full squat.
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