Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Muscle Building and Bodybuilding

Notices

Muscle Building and Bodybuilding Topics related to muscle building, bodybuilding, including training and fullbody workouts. If you are looking for great advice on gaining muscle this forum is for you.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-23-2013, 11:56 PM   #1
BendtheBar
BendtheBar
is getting skinny(ish)
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,482,261, Level: 100 Points: 1,482,261, Level: 100 Points: 1,482,261, Level: 100
Activity: 44% Activity: 44% Activity: 44%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 
Extreme Mini Golf Champion!Tournaments Won: 6

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,303
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
My Mood: Lurking
Reputation: 2558677
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default DOMS - Crameri et al (2007)

I referenced this study in a recent video and article. I might have been somewhat confusing in the video. The point I made was that DOMS, or soreness, wasn't from muscle inflammation but from connective tissue inflammation.

Here is a quote that talks about this in greater detail:

Why Your Muscles Get Sore: Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness (DOMS) and Exercise ? Myosynthesis

Quote:
A study by Crameri et al (2007) indicates that muscle damage doesn’t really correlate to soreness...

The pain of DOMS was actually attributed to the inflammation of the extracellular matrix – which is connective tissue that binds the muscle fibers together.

All of this would strongly indicate that connective tissues are the source of the actual pain and soreness, not the muscle fibers themselves. The damaging effects of exercise on actual muscle fibers don’t correlate with pain.

This is of interest because it means that inflammation and pain don’t indicate damaged muscle fibers per se. There’s tissue damage, and muscle fibers can be damaged along with that, but there’s no actual relation between muscle fiber damage and the pain you feel.

Taken together, there’s a very good chance that the processes behind DOMS and those responsible for muscle growth are only loosely related.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."



Last edited by BendtheBar; 01-24-2013 at 12:06 AM.
BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Old 01-24-2013, 12:00 AM   #2
BendtheBar
BendtheBar
is getting skinny(ish)
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,482,261, Level: 100 Points: 1,482,261, Level: 100 Points: 1,482,261, Level: 100
Activity: 44% Activity: 44% Activity: 44%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 
Extreme Mini Golf Champion!Tournaments Won: 6

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,303
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
My Mood: Lurking
Reputation: 2558677
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

From Wiki:

Quote:
In biology, the extracellular matrix (ECM) is the extracellular part of animal tissue that usually provides structural support to the animal cells in addition to performing various other important functions. The extracellular matrix is the defining feature of connective tissue in animals.
Extracellular matrix includes the interstitial matrix and the basement membrane.[1] Interstitial matrix is present between various animal cells (i.e., in the intercellular spaces). Gels of polysaccharides and fibrous proteins fill the interstitial space and act as a compression buffer against the stress placed on the ECM.[2] Basement membranes are sheet-like depositions of ECM on which various epithelial cells rest.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 01-24-2013, 08:46 AM   #3
Off Road
Off Road
has no status.
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
Off Road's Avatar
 
Tournaments Won: 9

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7,607
Reputation: 786994
Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!


Default

That's the way I've always understood it too. I have never seen the illustration before, that is helpful. I've went round-and-round with the guys that think soreness is muscle fiber damage and that equates to growth (train for soreness). They will constantly switch routines or exercises chasing that soreness. I'm not saying soreness can't be used as some type of indicator, just that it doesn't mean what most lifters think it means and actively seeking it is just spinning their wheels.
Off Road is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 01-24-2013, 11:59 AM   #4
5kgLifter
5kgLifter
loves teddy bears...
Kettlebells' Angel !!!!
Max Brawn
Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94 Points: 23,645, Level: 94
Activity: 11% Activity: 11% Activity: 11%
 
5kgLifter's Avatar
 
Checkers Champion! Mario Kart Extreme! Champion! NG Holdem Champion! Javelin Champion! Mouse Batting Champion! Keno Champion!
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13,928
Training Type: Other
My Mood: Cynical
Reputation: 646483
5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!5kgLifter is one with Crom!
Default

Well, considering massage of the golgi tendons relieves muscle pain more readily and for longer than massage of the muscle belly, that kind of makes perfect sense.
__________________
36.5 kg /80.3 lb Middle-Finger DL (right hand)...
5kgLifter is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2007, crameri, doms


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Asymmetrical DOMS LtL General Fitness & Health 9 01-17-2012 05:52 PM
Jim Wendler at the BIG seminar, 2007 Aurik Video Compilations 2 07-21-2011 09:38 AM
Attack of the DOMS (Muscle Soreness) BendtheBar Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 18 02-04-2011 05:04 PM
More food for thought.....DOMS AthleteCreator General Fitness & Health 8 10-29-2009 09:30 PM

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.