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Old 07-09-2014, 03:04 AM   #11
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Thanks guys.

I'll be taking a week off from training, and come back while dropping one set from each exercise i do, for a while. Instead of cardio, i'll be adding 2 or 3 30-60 minutes mountain hikes each week, as the thought of that is not as nauseating as a threadmill is. i kind of enjoy walking briskly up hills, as long as its in the outdoors. I'll also do a few sprints every now and again over a soccer field we have nearby. If that dont work i'll be going back on 5x5 which is only 3 excercises 3 times a week. I'll also take a hard look at my recovery. The preliminary plan is ... go to bed earlier, sleep longer. Eat more quality protein every day and add a few supplements, including more fish oil than i get from my regular diet. I dont even care if i get a little fatter from eating more. That shit will come off easily enough in time.

Thanks again for the inputs. Much appreciated.
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Old 07-09-2014, 05:39 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Call_Me_Ishmael View Post
Saying that "there's no such thing as over-training" is kind of a new fad among internet fitness experts, but it's pure nonsense, IMO.



Brooks Kubik wrote an article that was posted in this thread where he mentions over-training.

This part stands out:

On that schedule, my bench was at 355 pounds and I
weighed 180 pounds -- and no matter what I did or how
hard I trained, I couldn't gain an ounce of muscle or
build any additional strength. I was stuck.

I didn't know it, but I was over-training. Big time.

But then I got really busy at work -- and I had to cut
back on my training time -- so I divided my workout in
two parts and alternated them. I still trained 3x per
week, but I only did half my program in each workout.

I THOUGHT it was going to be a maintenance program --
but a funny thing happened.

I started to get bigger and stronger.


I don't know if this applies to your situation or not, but Brooks Kubik is a well-respected author in the Iron game.

He seems to think over-training exists.

I'd take his word over most internet experts.

And the article may (or may not) provide some insight for you and your situation.
Why do the words of this guy have more weight (lol pun) than what you see of high level weightlifters doing? They can train day in and day out, multiple times per day. Over training seems to be an excuse people make when they start to get a bit tired from training and their lifts plateau. There's certainly some sort of limit, but I doubt it's this easy to reach.
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Old 07-09-2014, 07:38 AM   #13
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Lets look at this topic from many angles.
Natural lifter running x routine making anywhere from no to slow gains over x duration decides to go On.
He/She now experiences steady progress making both strength & hypertrophy gains continuously.
Or
We only have so many hormones in our body on a given day, that indicates finite recovery capacity.

Will only touch on such things as how one deals with stress, vascular systems and there capacities, Intestines and absorption rates the list goes on....
Looking at the many variables to surmise there is no such thing as OT shows individuals perspective not a macro understanding of the human body.
Taking an elite athletes advise on training recovery is comparable to following Magnus Carlsen methods and expecting to be the next Chess Champion.

There's more than one road to the same destination its up to the individual to find the best path for them.
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Old 07-09-2014, 08:29 AM   #14
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For what its worth i do believe the human body has a finite capacity for recovery. That capacity, like everything else can be trained up to a certain point if you know how. If you are not at your "recovery limits" so to speak, you are "under recovering" rather than "over training". If you are at your genetic capacity for recovery and you experience overtraining symptoms, then you are overtraining.

Edit: Like i said before in this thread I am probably under recovering, so i started looking at cardio as a way to boost my recovery ability. Cardiovascular conditioning gives better blood flow to the muscles, better oxygen uptake, lower heartrate... it does kind of make sense. It's something i've not yet tried anyways.

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Old 07-09-2014, 11:46 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
Why do the words of this guy have more weight (lol pun) than what you see of high level weightlifters doing?
You're absolutely right.

OP, don't listen to me, don't listen to Brooks Kubik, and most importantly, don't listen to your body.

Simply mimic what the "high level weightlifters" are doing by training day in and day out, multiple times a day.

Go forth and prosper.

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Old 07-09-2014, 12:50 PM   #16
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I imagine those blacksmiths from 150 years ago, got those huge forearms because they took every other day off from work, so their forearms could "recover"
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Old 07-09-2014, 01:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistwraith View Post
Edit: Like i said before in this thread I am probably under recovering, so i started looking at cardio as a way to boost my recovery ability. Cardiovascular conditioning gives better blood flow to the muscles, better oxygen uptake, lower heartrate... it does kind of make sense. It's something i've not yet tried anyways.
Doing things like this are definitely worth a try and regardless of if they work or not, if you are keeping track of how you feel after doing them you get some good info. Personally, I do cardio after squat day because I found it reduces any soreness I have.

On the other hand, when I take 3 days off for a Holiday weekend, I usually come back mentally fresh and strong as hell. So time off and some good goes a long way as well.
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Old 07-09-2014, 02:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Call_Me_Ishmael View Post
You're absolutely right.

OP, don't listen to me, don't listen to Brooks Kubik, and most importantly, don't listen to your body.

Simply mimic what the "high level weightlifters" are doing by training day in and day out, multiple times a day.

Go forth and prosper.
I was being serious. You've resorted quickly to sarcasm. I absolutely didn't tell him to go out and train multiple times per day. I said other people are capable of doing it. I legitimately want to know why what Brooks Kubik says is to have more importance than what, say, Ivan Abadjiev says (this is just an example, what about the Norwegian powerlifting team who squat 4x per week and make great gains).

I'm not trying to dismiss his problem, I just think it's silly to jump to overtraining as the root of people's issues when they get tired from training and stall a little bit.

Actually, at both our faults, I don't even think this fellow stated what his lifts are (sorry if I missed it).
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Old 07-10-2014, 03:03 AM   #19
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I have never measured my 1RM's in any lift but these are the weights i do 5x5 (1x5 for the deadlift) with for the main lifts. Well, before my bench took a nosedive to 75kg that is. Keep in mind i started lifting only 7 months ago. I realise im new to this, and many things i experience may not be what i think they are. So i ask for input on it, when im unsure what my body is telling me.

Squat 150
Bench 85
Dead 160

I do not think weight lifted has anything to do with overtraining / underrecovery though. If like me, your body is previously untrained and is used to sitting behind a desk, while smoking 20 a day and giving no second thought to your diet, then you may overtrain / underrecover at a weight that to others seem trivial. it may take time, to make your body the machine it needs to be to recover from the stress imposed on it by training with resistance, and in the meantime you are probably more suseptible to overtraining symptoms than a fit individual, like yourself (probably).

Edit: I mean, logically it should be so... im not sure though.
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Old 07-10-2014, 06:05 AM   #20
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American College of Sports Medicine on overtraining.

http://www.acsm.org/docs/current-com...resistance.pdf
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