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Old 12-04-2013, 03:26 AM   #1
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Default Thinking aloud on training programs

I have been thinking about various training programs for a long time now. More on the lines of when programs should be run with regards to were you are as a lifter.

You start playing around with squats and deads and whatever else and try to jam everything into a killer program, only to find it dose more harm than good.

As you get through the weight ranks so to speak you soon realise that you have to some how program your heavy lifts so you don't hit a wall sooner than you have too.

Some time's I wish I could go back to the start and have another go, because back then lifting was simple, Ya just went to the gym and loaded up the bar and went to town. Couldn't really go wrong. Recovery wasn't a issue, and a tear, strain, bruise, brake was never a deal breaker, just a inconvenience.

These days it seems the more I can lift the smarter about it I have to become. I have to balance Work, Family, and lifting. If I destroy myself in the gym, I'm good for very little at work. I have a fairly high absentee record at work because if I am really trying to hit some numbers in the gym I tend to call in sick so I can rest up and attack the weight. I do wonder if this crosses a line .

Anyway while I was resourcing programs I noticed there was't really any two day per week squatting programs. I'm quite fond of squatting but, three times a week seems the norm for newbees but its too hard for me to recover and one session a week isn't enough, and two seems a good medium. I'm running a two dayer at the moment but I am doing very little other training besides squatting.

Looking into the future when my current program comes to a end I would like to keep up the squatting but I'm not sure how to peace a program together with that in mind.

I normally train 3 days so I figer I will squat on day one, and Squat and deadlift on day three.

I guess Bench and press will be day 2.

I have no idear if this falls into a split, fullbody or what have you

If any one knows how to peace a program together on these lines I'd love to here about it.

Cheers Nath.
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Old 12-04-2013, 03:50 AM   #2
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This will probably be totally irrelevant to you (given where you're at), but it might give a relative newbie (more so than me even, heh) some ideas that could work.

My favourite setup for a while was squats + bench (etc.) on day 1, press + deadlift (etc.) on day 2, and squats + bench again (etc.) on day 3, but generally with different squat/bench variations from day 1 to day 3, and/or different sets and reps.

Deadlifting once a week (or even less) seems to be fine for everyone from newbie to fairly advanced (based only on what I've seen and read, mostly).

Whereas yeah, squats and bench can be done twice a week, IF you're just starting to lift, OR you vary it a bit, OR (maybe) if you're very careful and have perfect form for both nearly all the time.

But again, I hardly know what I'm talking about, lol. Just some observations, and *possibly* something helpful for the odd "novice lifter" who might be around here.

As for advanced lifters, sorry, I have no idea! I'll see when I get there...


edit: Actually, BtB wrote a full body routine that was along these lines. Day 3 has close grip bench (I think) and 20 rep squats. Pretty sure.
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:45 AM   #3
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IMO, no training program should interfere with a person's life, unless it's because of injury through said training.

I did a quick venture in to splits, quite a while back now or so it feels, but I was left so sore I could barely function, so I dropped them and have never returned to them. I couldn't see the point of training one day only to not be able to move the following day...a degree of DOMS is acceptable and understandable but when it interferes then it's pointless. Just my opinion.

Obviously, professional lifters will tolerate severe DOMS because it's their job to do so, basically.



Sometimes, we have to take a long hard look at routines that are already written and tweak them to suit us and to fit comfortably in to our separate lifestyles as well; most routines, if not all, will have only been written around the lifestyle of the writer.
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Old 12-04-2013, 11:18 AM   #4
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You can squat 2x a week, you just need to not try for volume or soreness. There has to be a balance.

Squats Monday for a 5x5 and Friday a ramping 5 sets, like Madcows.

At some point you need to create your own programs, tinker with them, and realize you will only make progress from this point by listening to your body. You are already strong. There is no magic program that can replace the knowledge you have of what works for you right now.
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:07 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
You can squat 2x a week, you just need to not try for volume or soreness. There has to be a balance.

Squats Monday for a 5x5 and Friday a ramping 5 sets, like Madcows.

At some point you need to create your own programs, tinker with them, and realize you will only make progress from this point by listening to your body. You are already strong. There is no magic program that can replace the knowledge you have of what works for you right now.
The bearded beast has spoken. To add to this, there is no perfect 'ratio' between volume, intensity and frequency that'll give you max gains. You'll progress on any decent program. Personal preference also comes into play here since while one might like squatting 4 times a week with moderate volume, someone else might just want to go balls to wall on his quats 1.5-2x a week. Some people swear by benching 3 times a week, others say once a week is plenty. The reason that you hear so many different opinions on this topic is that there is no 'one size fits all' answer.

I'm not saying that everyone should start out just making their own progress because chances are it'll be a terrible one. But once you reach a certain amount of knowledge about training principles and your own body you can start changing these variables and then changing them again or keeping it that way based on how you feel. Some people train the big 3 lifts 5-6 times a week, others train them 1-2 times.

I'd also like to add that doing this will really help you develop your training knowledge and some people (like myself) have more fun being in control of their own programming.
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:24 PM   #6
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How does one squat 1.5 times a week lol Just kiddin ya'
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:36 PM   #7
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Gidday Folks

I am just thinking about doing a version of this.....
http://stronglifts.com/madcow/5x5_Pr...odized_5x5.htm

But I will be droping Wednesdays squats and the deloads will be done if needed. Friday's squats will properly become front squats as well, so that should keep the tonnage down a little and aid recovery as well as blow out my quads.

It seems to tick all the box's for me. I'm not looking for a special program, just one that allows me to train the way that fits me. Trail and error seems to be the thing. I'm not too sure how I got to the level that I am at. I have had ups and downs all year. I remember getting stapled at 162 kg's mid year and know I can squat 216kg well below parallel. All I really did was keep at it and squated as much as possible.

This year has been a interesting one, and i have learnt a lot about lifting. I am finally starting to understand how to proceed and more importantly what not to do.

Cheers Nath.
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:59 PM   #8
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I'm running into similiar issues myself. The fix I'm trying at the moment is to do almost a conjugate split of one heavy, intense, low volume session devoted completely to squatting and another session with some dynamic work and some bodybuilding type work. I'm squatting twice a week every OTHER week, however, because on my high intensity leg day I'm alternating deadlifts and squats. The same could be done, however, with both deads and squats on the heavy day once a week, the volume of each would just have to be reduced even further.

Maybe you could do something like this;

Day 1-
High intensity dead/squats

Day 2-
Bench/bench assistance day

Day 3-
Dynamic full body
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:08 AM   #9
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Hi folks and many thanks for all the replies.

After going to the brink of depression and back (not joking) I think i going to give this a run.

If its not going to do it I have another up my sleeve.





Day 1
Deadlifts 5x5
Dumbell rows 5x5
Barbell curls 5x5

Day 2
Barbell bench press 5x5
Dumbell shoulder press 5x5
Close grip bench press 5x5

Day 3
Squats 5x5
Stiff leg deadlifts 5x5
Calf raises 3x20
Weighted crunches 3x12.

Cheers Folks
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