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Old 03-13-2013, 10:43 AM   #11
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They are different. Here is my article on the differences:


Comparing Stiff Leg Deadlifts And Romanian Deadlifts | Huge Gainer
Bumping this for Josh.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:43 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
My RDL info is based on Rippetoe's. Watch his video.

The RDL

Video tại vimeo.com - Đăng tại www.KyXaoViet.Com
I never questioned your RDL description or form. I am however questioning your description of the SLDL and the differences between the 2. I am saying that there is more to it than just bar path.
That's a good video by the way.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:45 AM   #13
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I never questioned your RDL description or form. I am however questioning your description of the SLDL and the differences between the 2. I am saying that there is more to it than just bar path.
That's a good video by the way.
I never said there wasn't more to the lifts than bar path. Not sure where you are getting this from.

I DID say that bar path is a good cursory indicator as to whether someone understands the differences between the lifts.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:47 AM   #14
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I never said there wasn't more to the lifts than bar path. I DID say that bar path is a good cursory indicator as to whether someone understands the differences between the lifts.
But you did not address the fact that the RDL starts from a hang and starts with an eccentric movement and that the SLDL starts from the floor and is a concentric movement. This is very important when explaining the differences.
In reality no deadlift should be done with the bar away from the legs, SLDL or RDL. That is dangerous and puts one in a mechanical disadvantage
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:54 AM   #15
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But you did not address the fact that the RDL starts from a hang
That's because it's a given, due to the fact you are driving your hips back to initiate the descent.

When you unrack the bar and have 635 pounds in your hands, it's not going to start from a hang position. Your lower back would not tolerate that. You unrack, set up, then initiate the hips back. This is when the hanging comes into play. You don't unrack already in a hanging position.



Quote:
the SLDL starts from the floor and is a concentric movement.
Not true. Plenty of lifters do them off blocks and don't initiate from the floor. There are many SLDL variations. That's the reality.

Conventional bodybuilding SLDL is more about the stretch than anything.

Quote:
In reality no deadlift should be done with the bar away from the legs, SLDL or RDL. That is dangerous and puts one in a mechanical disadvantage
That's your opinion, and however valid, it doesn't changed the fact that 99.99% of SLDLs ever performed were not ridden along the legs.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:09 AM   #16
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That's because it's a given, due to the fact you are driving your hips back to initiate the descent.

When you unrack the bar and have 635 pounds in your hands, it's not going to start from a hang position. Your lower back would not tolerate that. You unrack, set up, then initiate the hips back. This is when the hanging comes into play. You don't unrack already in a hanging position.

Did you watch my video?



Not true. Plenty of lifters do them off blocks and don't initiate from the floor. There are many SLDL variations. That's the reality.

Conventional bodybuilding SLDL is more about the stretch than anything.



That's your opinion, and however valid, it doesn't changed the fact that 99.99% of SLDLs ever performed were not ridden along the legs.
Ok Steve, you are getting a little squirrely here. When you unrack an RDL do you set it on the ground? NO! Therefore it is hanging. I never said that you don't have to get your hips and back in any sort of postion. I never said you don't! Why did you even feel the need to bring that up.

Don't lower this to the level of a pissing match. That isn't you. And further more, that isn't what I was trying to achieve here. I wasn't trying to disrespect you or attack your pride. Come on man, you should know me well enough to know that I wouldn't try to do that to you. It sucks that after all this time in the community you don't think I have more respect for you than that!

All I was doing was challenging you to take in the information provided by Rippetoe regardging SLDL vs RDL. Why are you so resistant to that? I didn't even say you were wrong. I just said read the information before shitting on it. Have you gotten to a point where when a member of the MaB community challenges you to take a look at valid information before disregarding it, that you are unable to do so? Why?

I sent you a PM stating that you should read that information, but you respond that you do your RDL like Rippetoe. I never said you didn't man. It's like you aren't reading what I was saying, you're just reacting to me like I am attacking you. I don't understand it. This is the very thing that you have so often rallied against!
Anyway, it's your site man. I'll shut up now. I just wanted you to address Rippetoe's write up and the fact that he states the RDL starts from a hang (not on the ground) and the SLDL starts from the ground. That's it.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:10 AM   #17
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OK, this interests me now. I have always assumed I did SLDL wrong because I could not keep the bar in tight to my legs. In fact, it's easily 3-4 inches in front of my shins at the bottom. The bar does not get close to my legs until around knee height and above.

If I try to get my lats really tight and force the bar in tighter, my shoulders are miles ahead of the bar. well, unless I bend my knees quite a bit which defeasts the purpose because then it is a regular deadlift.

I have a long torso and short legs, so I assumed I was just effed in this department.

I like Fazc's comment about the purpose of the lifts, but more clarity could be useful here too. I assume the SLDL is mostly for lower back? And RDL is mostly for hamstring?
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:12 AM   #18
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Pulling this from PMS:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJosh
Steve, I know you didn't say they were the same. I've read your article. Did you not say that the only difference is bar path?
Did you state that one starts from the ground the other from a hang?
No. That was a basic primer, not an advanced tutorial. There is a difference.

Just because I say:

Quote:
Unlike the stiff leg deadlift, the Romanian deadlift is performed by lowering the barbell along the legs.
...doesn't mean that I am saying it is the ONLY difference. I am providing a cursory overview for the beginning lifter/undereducated lifter who believes these lifts are the same exercise.

I never said the only difference was bar path.

I have no idea where you get this from. Read the article again. I NEVER say that is the only difference. I say it is A difference.

Another quote from my comments:

Quote:
These deadlift variations are often seen as the same lift, but they are not. There are minor, but important differences regarding how each variation is performed.
The old schoolers in these images weren't riding the bar against their legs:



Understand that just because I talk about the differences as they are understood by the modern lifting community doesn't mean I am endorsing them. I am merely trying to speak the language understood by lifters so I can help educate them.

When I say things such as:

Quote:
Unlike the stiff leg deadlift, the Romanian deadlift is performed by lowering the barbell along the legs.
I am not implying that this is the ONLY difference. It is the main difference; an important difference. A difference not known to the average Joe.

I am not performing an advanced analysis of the RDL in that article. It is an overview. It was meant to show lifters that there is indeed a difference between the lifts.

There are different types of articles. When I write simple bench press tips and leave out a comprehensive bench press overview, I am not implying that this tip is the only important aspect of the bench press, nor am I saying it's the only difference between a good bench press and a bad bench press.

When I talk about the hand spacing differences between close grips and bench press to beginners I am not saying these differences are the only differences. I write certain types of articles for certain types of audiences. My focus is always on helping beginners. I am not Rippetoe, nor have I ever positioned myself as someone who tries to teach the advanced biomechanics of lifts.

I am trying to get people to a functional level, uninjured. That is who I am. That is who I write to. I teach only what I know, and never pretend to know everything.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:17 AM   #19
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I know I'm not the most experienced lifter here but I just started doing SLDL recently, and before doing so I tried to research as much as I can on it and on the differences between the RDL. This is the conclusion I came to from the informations I gathered:

The Romanian Deadlift doesn't start from the floor. You unrack the bar and slowly move the bar along the thigh while driving the hips back and making sure the lower AND upper back is kept locked into it's initial arch. With most people flexibility, this will usually bring the bar not much past the knees.


The SLDL starts from the floor, the bar being a couple inches away from your shins. On the descent, the SLDL allows for upper back rounding near the end of the movement (instead of keeping it locked in the initial position for RDL) which allows for a greater range a motion and to go all the way down to the ground.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:21 AM   #20
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Ok Steve, you are getting a little squirrely here. When you unrack an RDL do you set it on the ground? NO! Therefore it is hanging..
Come on, really? Squirrely?

Did you watch the video of me unracking 635? It wasn't hanging. I was trying to stay upright and live. There was nothing hanging about it. You start to hang after you have first made sure that you are able to remain alive and uninjured. After said point I tightened my lower back and proceeded to hang the bar.

You're debating semantics here.

Quote:
Don't lower this to the level of a pissing match. That isn't you.
Why are you doing this? Did I offend you? I never tried to lower this into anything. I responded to your questions.

Please don't talk down to me, nor lecture me. I was responding to your questions, and did so in a respectful manner. If you don't like my response, that doesn't mean I am pissing at you.

You're the one calling me "squirrely." I don't appreciate that tone one bit.

I think you're missing the point. Not every article is written as an opus. Christ man, I spend 18 hours a day online trying to help people. You think I have time to write 5000 word detailed replies to every question? Cut me some slack here man.

Quote:
I sent you a PM stating that you should read that information, but you respond that you do your RDL like Rippetoe. I never said you didn't man.
Yes you did. You said that I was implying the only difference was between bar path, which means you were implying I did not understand Rippetoe.

How else would I interpret this comment?

You specially commented that I believed the only difference was bar path. I responded saying I never implied this was the only difference.
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