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Old 11-27-2011, 04:00 PM   #21
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Something you guys (BTB and Fazc) were discussing on another thread piqued my interest. Steve was saying that he needed to get his eccentrics faster and Fazc said he would start moving forward again when they did.

I'm interested in this idea with regard to bench press. At the moment, I can't bench enough for this to be an issue, but in the past, everytime I got over 150kg on bench, the eccentric would become a huge problem. For a start, my shoulder pain would be excruciating and make it hard to control the bar. Secondly the bar would descend achingly slowly - though I sometimes had difficulty controlling the last 3-4" to the chest. I often felt that this took a lot out of me and stopped me from hitting big 1RMs.

On squats too, past 200 kg and I was descending at a glacial pace. I wonder if this saps some strength, too.

What's your take on eccentrics and the speed thereof?
One of the keys to helping my eccentric speed was core strength. I was stubborn and refused to train abs. Right now even a little work keeps my core feeling stronger, and helps my eccentrics. Mileage may vary person to person. I like the combination of side bends and weighted situps.

Bench has been different. Shoulder and elbow strains became a real issue for me. The only thing that has helped me personally was the use of a Sling Shot. I feel more in control when benching and my eccentrics are faster.

I have noticed that the more strains and joint issues i have at a given time, the slower my eccentrics were. I had to baby the lift. This week I was beat up a bit in the shoulders and my bench eccentrics suffered. My only point is that if there is a weak link in the chain my eccentrics suffer. The Sling Shot allows me to train healthy and the result is quicker eccentrics.

On real heavy work the first rep is usually the slowest for me. When I do triples the second and third rep are quicker (as I gain confidence). This might not be the case for you, but it's worth a shot. Perhaps add some triples each week - a 5x3 or something like that, where you can place some focus on eccentric speed.

Part of this is mental too. I needed to learn to descend quicker while trusting my form. This took time and practice.

I hope some of the other guys will chime in, as I am no expert in this area.
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Old 11-27-2011, 04:11 PM   #22
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On real heavy work the first rep is usually the slowest for me. When I do triples the second and third rep are quicker (as I gain confidence).
That's exactly the same for me.

Thanks for the suggestions, much appreciated. I've made a start on the abs, but I might get one of tham thar ab wheels, so I can do them at home.
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Old 11-27-2011, 04:15 PM   #23
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That's exactly the same for me.
Exactly the same for me as well. I fight against it, but it's seemingly inevitable.

Btb's experiences with rep speed mirror my own. I do try and make the eccentrics as fast as possible and that helps tremendously. When I slow down it's usually down to a combination of factors which range from just not concentrating to feeling hurt and sore which makes me lack confidence.

Personally for me this is even more of a reason to do singles, in an attempt to train myself out of this habit. As bottom line, in competition it is your first rep that counts.
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Old 11-27-2011, 05:44 PM   #24
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I have always lifted fast but since doing Westside with the combination of heavy work against bands and speed work has made me even faster on both negatives and positives. Positives are faster because you get used to accelerating through the band tension. Negatives get faster because the light speed work has greased the groove of the movement somewhat.

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Old 11-27-2011, 06:28 PM   #25
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How much rest between heavy singles? As long as necessary?
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:45 AM   #26
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How much rest between heavy singles? As long as necessary?
I ended up taking as long as 45 minutes just to complete the singles section of the routine. Which is actually why I started to superset my back off work and upper back work, originally as a means to save time.

So yeah, within reason take as long as you need.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:24 AM   #27
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Personally for me this is even more of a reason to do singles, in an attempt to train myself out of this habit.
Very insightful. Eccentrics are more taxing on the body so it would seem that faster eccentrics could create fewer strains and joint issues thus making it easier to do faster eccentrics. Would this be true?
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:39 AM   #28
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Eccentrics are more taxing on the body so it would seem that faster eccentrics could create fewer strains and joint issues thus making it easier to do faster eccentrics. Would this be true?
Yeah I think so, this certainly appears to be true for me and I think that's what Btb and Tann were saying as well.

If you look at everything Broz has said about frequent lifting he always emphasises speed in the lifts and no grinders. Countless other guys have made similar comments. It's almost inevitable as people lift more frequently or do more volume they will need to at least attempt to lift faster.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:43 AM   #29
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Very insightful. Eccentrics are more taxing on the body so it would seem that faster eccentrics could create fewer strains and joint issues thus making it easier to do faster eccentrics. Would this be true?
I have definitely found this to be true for squatting.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:58 AM   #30
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Very insightful. Eccentrics are more taxing on the body so it would seem that faster eccentrics could create fewer strains and joint issues thus making it easier to do faster eccentrics. Would this be true?
Worth noting as well that lifters who train daily like oly lifters drop the bar rather than do negatives thus allowing themselves to do more and recover quicker.

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