Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Supplements, Nutrition & Diet > Nutrition, Diet and Supplements

Notices

Nutrition, Diet and Supplements Discuss nutrition, diet, cutting and weight loss. Supplement discussions as well.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-10-2010, 09:17 AM   #1
rippednmichigan
rippednmichigan
robert@flexfitnessandnutrition.com
Social Media Manager/REP
Max Brawn
Points: 21,598, Level: 92 Points: 21,598, Level: 92 Points: 21,598, Level: 92
Activity: 6% Activity: 6% Activity: 6%
 
rippednmichigan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 7,989
Training Type: Bodybuilding
Fav Supp: EFX K-Otic Orange Ambush
My Mood: Daring
Reputation: 74337
rippednmichigan is a lifting beastrippednmichigan is a lifting beastrippednmichigan is a lifting beastrippednmichigan is a lifting beastrippednmichigan is a lifting beastrippednmichigan is a lifting beastrippednmichigan is a lifting beastrippednmichigan is a lifting beastrippednmichigan is a lifting beastrippednmichigan is a lifting beastrippednmichigan is a lifting beast


Default Nutrient Timing - Our theory on why not to take NO & Creatine together

Nutrient Timing - Our theory on why not to take NO & Creatine together
Willing to put our money where our mouth is, we are looking for a few testers to try this protocol out.

We feel that for optimal effect, you should not take the traditional preworkout with creatine, carbs and NO factors like arginine all in one serving. The best thing we think is to take Creatine/Carbs 60 minutes before your workout and then your NO about 15 minutes before the workout for maximal effect

In a nutshell Persky showed that creatine takes 40-50 minutes to get into the muscle and also that creatine mixed with carbohydrates may take even longer supporting our theory that 60 minutes is probably optimal and buttressing our internal testing that creatine is best utilized 60 minutes prior to working out.

It would seem that L-Arginine products suffer a similar fate that things like Prohormones do. Arginase is expressed in the liver and seems to deactivate Arginine before it can become a NO precursor as demonstrated in the studies of intravenous arginine vs. oral arginine. IV Arginine showed promise yet oral didn't which leads me to believe co-factors like Quercetin that can inhibit liver based Arginase should really help increase the efficacy of the product.

Pharmacokinetics of intravenous and oral l-arginine in normal volunteers by Oranee Tangphao shows that a peak concentration of oral L-Arginine occurs at about 60 minutes after ingestion, but the graph shows around 15 minutes significant L-Arginine is circulating and peaks at 60 minutes where it is then at a pretty steady state for about 100 minutes. So, right about when you hit the gym you are getting an infusion of Arginine at active levels and peaks during your workout.


J Clin Pharmacol. 2003 Jan;43(1):29-37.
Single- and multiple-dose pharmacokinetics of oral creatine.

Persky AM, Müller M, Derendorf H, Grant M, Brazeau GA, Hochhaus G.

Department of Pharmaceutics, College of Pharmacy, University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida, USA.

Supplementation with exogenous creatine (Cr) has shown physiological benefits in humans, but little is known about the pharmacokinetics of Cr in humans. Six healthy males completed an open-label study consisting of a full pharmacokinetic analysis following a single oral dose of Cr monohydrate (71 mg kg-1) and at steady-state after 6 days of Cr administration (71 mg kg-1 qid). After the single oral dose, the clearance (CL/F) was 0.20 +/- 0.066 L h-1 kg-1, tmax was 1.9 +/- 0.88 hours, and Cmax = 102.1 +/- 11.2 mg h L-1. At steady-state, CL/F decreased to 0.12 +/- 0.016 L h-1 kg-1, tmax did not change, and Cmax increased to 162.2 +/- 30.0 mg L-1. Penetration (AUCMUSCLE/AUCPLASMA) of Cr into the interstitial muscle space, as determined by microdialysis, was 0.47 +/- 0.09 and 0.37 +/- 0.27 for the single dose and at steady-state, respectively. Plasma and muscle data were simultaneously fitted with a model incorporating a saturable absorption and first-order elimination process. In conclusion, repeated dosing of Cr caused a reduction in clearance that could result from saturation of the skeletal muscle pool of Cr.

Pharmacokinetics of creatine.

McCall W, Persky AM.

Division of pharmacotherapy and Experimental Therapeutics, School of Pharmacy, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Chapel Hill, NC 27599-7360, USA.

Research has demonstrated that creatine supplementation has some therapeutic benefit with respect to muscle function and more recently neurological function. Despite the growing body of literature on the pharmacologic effect of creatine, very little is known about the disposition of creatine after supraphysiologic doses. The movement of creatine throughout the body is governed by transport processes which impact the absorption of creatine from the intestine, clearance of creatine from the kidney, and access of creatine to target tissues. With repeated doses of creatine, it appears that the clearance of creatine decreases mainly due to the saturation of skeletal muscle stores. Insulin and insulin-stimulating foods appear to enhance muscle uptake of creatine but at the same time, high carbohydrate meals may slow the absorption of creatine from the intestine. Little is known about creatine disposition in special populations including the elderly and patients with neuromuscular disease. Knowledge of creatine disposition in these clinically relevant populations can help remove some of the guess work of dose selection during clinical trials.
User owns 3x $30 I\'ll Pump You Up cash User owns 1x $20 I\'ll Pump You Up cash
__________________
Social Media Manager/ Board Rep
Be sure to "LIKE" us on Facebook!!

Pure-Potent-Drug Free


http://allamericanefx.com/

Certified Personal Trainer
Training and Nutrition at
www.flexfitnessandnutrition.com


"Take control and push your limits!"
rippednmichigan is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Old 01-10-2010, 01:39 PM   #2
BendtheBar
BendtheBar
is getting skinny(ish)
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,359,727, Level: 100 Points: 1,359,727, Level: 100 Points: 1,359,727, Level: 100
Activity: 99% Activity: 99% Activity: 99%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 
Extreme Mini Golf Champion!Tournaments Won: 6

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 79,103
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
My Mood: Lurking
Reputation: 2480588
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Interesting read.

Thumbs up.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
creatine, nutrient, theory, timing


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Body Set Point Theory? MattB General Board 15 02-15-2013 12:25 PM
Whats NEW? Manage you spike timing. Rich Knapp Nutrition, Diet and Supplements 2 07-18-2012 11:23 AM
An easy way to boost antioxidant nutrient absorption Jerry Brainum General Board 0 05-14-2010 05:21 PM
Creatine Monohydrate vs. Creatine Ethyl Ester BendtheBar Nutrition, Diet and Supplements 21 12-26-2009 08:54 PM
Supplement Combinations and Timing bwys61 Nutrition, Diet and Supplements 8 11-04-2009 01:56 PM

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.