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Old 10-29-2011, 01:15 PM   #21
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I would also like to hear what you have done in the past to progress and I would like you to caveat that you are a BAMF when it comes to lifts, so a beginner doesnt need a program this complicated.
I have done a lot of different programs in the past, but one thing they have in common is that they are always focused around heavy compounds. Even when I was doing more of a bodybuilding type split.

Here is my training progression through the years:
1. Started in my basement with my dad having me do heavy sets of 6 on compound movements, should have just stuck with this
2. Joined the local YMCA, where I thought I was learning to train. Basically I did a bodybuilding split for a while that was still focused on lifting heavy
3. Went to college and found forums on the internet, Steve suggested that I think about powerlifting.
4. Used Layne Nortan's Power Hypertrophy workout, one upper body power day, and one lower body power day low reps, and then 3 other days that were like a body part split
5. Started to use the West side template, I made good gains, but I was not doing enough assistance so I lost some size. But my main lifts went up.
6. Here is where I got into Chaos and Pain, I trained 3 days a week using a squat, push, and Pull. This was very effective for me, but it really kills you.
7. I used 5/3/1 for a while, great program but I let my ego get the best of me.
Now, I am back to using Westside and trying to get the most out of it that I can, I think assistance is key to Westside and a good training environment.

That is a history of Jwood, lol.
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Old 10-29-2011, 04:25 PM   #22
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The only point I would make is the newer the lifter, the less periodisation they need.
Absolutely, this routine we're hashing out is basically for an extension of what me and Btb discussed in chatbox specifically for us, not for beginners. We're both close to having an Elite total.

Much of what we're discussing is not what I would call complicated. It's a LOT of work on the basics and their variations, the type of thing promoted by Ditillo, Starr and Hepburn for decades.

I think we need to be careful in calling out "too complicated" just because it's new to us and doesn't jive with our own training style.
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Old 10-29-2011, 07:04 PM   #23
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On a bit of a tangent, I bought a trap bar as I got a bit of a bargain on it. Was thinking of doing the deficits on the trap bar. Any thoughts?
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Old 10-30-2011, 03:24 AM   #24
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From what I know trap bar is more quads and hams and less lower back and glutes. If you're doing deficits to work on your lockout like I do, might be best to stick to straight bar IMO.

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Old 10-30-2011, 09:45 AM   #25
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On a bit of a tangent, I bought a trap bar as I got a bit of a bargain on it. Was thinking of doing the deficits on the trap bar. Any thoughts?
It's a hybrid exercise for me but I love them because of the load they allow. I think a deficit would force more lower back and pehaps feel more like a conventional deadlift. Perhaps...
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:56 AM   #26
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It's a hybrid exercise for me but I love them because of the load they allow. I think a deficit would force more lower back and pehaps feel more like a conventional deadlift. Perhaps...
I concur, the overload is awesome.
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:57 AM   #27
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Or, just pick a comfortable 90% weight and do your singles with that weight. Less chance of burn out, but it's a little guess work as to whether you're improving your 1RM.
Refining this as I go on...

What I am thinking for my heaviest bench day, since I am working in 2 week heavy blocks, is this:

Week 1

--Heavy Singles x 6 reps, same weight.
--2 Board Press, 6 x 3

Week 2

--Heavy Singles x 3 reps, same weight as week one, then 3 ramping singles with last rep as possible PR attempt.
--Drop weight, 3 sets of doubles.
--Drop weight, 3 sets of triples.

I like the idea you posted from Ditillo:

Quote:
Out of interest; Ditillo recommends multiple singles (5-8), then take 20lbs off the bar and do a couple doubles, then take another 20lbs off and do 3 triples.
Working on a tentative plan right now. Will post soon.
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:58 AM   #28
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This thread is really awesome, if it is cool with you guys, I will put up my thoughts for increasing my strength and see how it compares to what you are doing. I have some pretty good ideas flowing, basically using a westside approach, but it may give you some ideas.
Absolutely.

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Old 10-30-2011, 10:03 AM   #29
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I am going to lay out everything I have in my head right now as far as a Westside template goes:

Here will be the days:
Day 1: ME bench and bench accessory
Day 2: ME Squat and dead assist
Day 3: DE Bench and OHP
Day 4: DE Squat and heavy deads

Everything will be done in 3 week cycles and then a deload:
ME Bench
Week 1: Working up to a 1 rm max
Week 2: Volume day: 5-8 sets of 3-5 reps with about 85% of max
Week 3: Overload day: Work up to 90% then hit heavier weights off boards

ME Squat similar style
Week 1: Work up to a 1 rm
Week 2: volume: 85% for reps
Week 3: High box squats

DE Bench
Week 1: speed bench: high band tension low bar weight
Week 2 : low band tension higher bar weight
Week 3: middle bar weight w/ chains

DE Squat
Week 1: no box, low tension high weight
Week 2: box, heavy tension low weight
Week 3: no box, high tension low weight

Deads: All will be sumo for now
Week 1:Work up to a 1 rm
Week 2: volume sets of 3-5
Week 3 Deficit pulls

Not sure how I will do my overhead pressing yet, but I would like to fit it into this basic style. But I do not really like partials for OHP. Also, I may use different bars on some of the weeks, for instance on bench volume day I may use a cambered bar or swiss bar. And on DE squats I may use the Yoke bar.

I have been feeling out the westside template for the past few months, so I am now trying to get more of a plan when I get to the gym. I am going to continue with the same assistance I am doing now.
Looks good Jeremy. Do you ever have days/weeks on Westside where you feel you need to back off, say to 50-70% of weight and just nail some volume? Or does your body handle intensity work week in, week out fairly well?
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:08 AM   #30
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What I am thinking for my heaviest bench day, since I am working in 2 week heavy blocks, is this:

Week 1

--Heavy Singles x 6 reps, same weight.
--2 Board Press, 6 x 3

Week 2

--Heavy Singles x 3 reps, same weight as week one, then 3 ramping singles with last rep as possible PR attempt.
--Drop weight, 3 sets of doubles.
--Drop weight, 3 sets of triples.
I like that a lot Btb, because it will give you an actual number to base your next 2 week block on, which is very valuable.

On the other day are you sticking to multiple triples? I'll be doing multiple triples on the CGBP.
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