Muscle and Brawn Forums
 

Go Back   Muscle and Brawn Forums > Training > Training Resources

Notices

Training Resources Workouts, Form Videos, Muscle and Strength Training Articles...everything you need. Forum includes the best posts from the forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-29-2011, 08:16 AM   #1
BendtheBar
BendtheBar
is getting skinny(ish)
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,541,050, Level: 100 Points: 1,541,050, Level: 100 Points: 1,541,050, Level: 100
Activity: 50% Activity: 50% Activity: 50%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 
Extreme Mini Golf Champion!Tournaments Won: 6

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,567
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
My Mood: Lurking
Reputation: 2572864
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default Increasing Strength

Fazc and I have been tossing around ideas. Starting a thread to better sift through them
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Old 10-29-2011, 08:21 AM   #2
Fazc
Fazc
is feeling squirrely!
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77
Activity: 36% Activity: 36% Activity: 36%
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: U.K
Posts: 5,554
Training Exp: 12+ years
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Fav Supp: Chicken
My Mood: Yeehaw
Reputation: 420568
Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!


Default

Some thoughts from our initial conversation, in no particular order:

1) There will be a heavy amount of loading followed by a period of unloading/deloading. For this to work the loading periods need to be severe.

2) The lifts and their variations will form the bulk of the workload, rather than assistance exercises.

3) Rep schemes will typically involved multiple sets of low reps.

4) Exercises will be limited to 2 main exercises per day.

5) Partials from various heights will be the main form of assistance.

6) Squat/Dead variations are to be done 3 times a week usually on the same day. Benching to be done 2-3 times.
Fazc is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 10-29-2011, 08:22 AM   #3
BendtheBar
BendtheBar
is getting skinny(ish)
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,541,050, Level: 100 Points: 1,541,050, Level: 100 Points: 1,541,050, Level: 100
Activity: 50% Activity: 50% Activity: 50%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 
Extreme Mini Golf Champion!Tournaments Won: 6

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,567
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
My Mood: Lurking
Reputation: 2572864
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

One of my big challenges is the squat. While I seem to have found a personal key to adding deadlift strength, squats still challenge me. 375 on my back feels heavy, despite having put in probably a thousand reps with it on my back the last several years.

I spent nearly 8 months doing the Hepburn 405 x 8 sets x 2 reps approach but it didn't help me at all. I have also tried frequent good mornings (5 days a week), speed work and higher frequency (as of late).

Nothing I do seems to budge my squat 1RM. My max is up only 29 pounds ion 2 years. So I am looking at new options.

1) Partial box squats. Perhaps 6 x 3 reps high box squats with 90% 1RM.
2) Heavy singles @ 90%.
3) Chains. Allow for heavier weight on my back, but making the overall rep slightly less taxing than a regular 90% rep.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 10-29-2011, 08:26 AM   #4
BendtheBar
BendtheBar
is getting skinny(ish)
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,541,050, Level: 100 Points: 1,541,050, Level: 100 Points: 1,541,050, Level: 100
Activity: 50% Activity: 50% Activity: 50%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 
Extreme Mini Golf Champion!Tournaments Won: 6

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,567
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
My Mood: Lurking
Reputation: 2572864
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazc View Post

1) There will be a heavy amount of loading followed by a period of unloading/deloading. For this to work the loading periods need to be severe.

6) Squat/Dead variations are to be done 3 times a week usually on the same day. Benching to be done 2-3 times.
These 2 points in particular have been something I have put a lot of thought into recently.

I have been considering 1-2 heavy weeks followed by a lighter week of volume work at 50-60%.

For squats and deads I have mulled the following possibilities...

3 Days Per Week (Alternating workouts)

Heavy squat, moderate deadlift, squat assistance.
Heavy deadlift, moderate squat, deadlift assistance.

Or...

Heavy squat, moderate deadlift, deadlift assistance.
Heavy deadlift, moderate squat, squat assistance.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."


BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 10-29-2011, 08:32 AM   #5
Fazc
Fazc
is feeling squirrely!
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77
Activity: 36% Activity: 36% Activity: 36%
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: U.K
Posts: 5,554
Training Exp: 12+ years
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Fav Supp: Chicken
My Mood: Yeehaw
Reputation: 420568
Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
3 Days Per Week (Alternating workouts)

Heavy squat, moderate deadlift, squat assistance.
Heavy deadlift, moderate squat, deadlift assistance.

Or...

Heavy squat, moderate deadlift, deadlift assistance.
Heavy deadlift, moderate squat, squat assistance.
How would you feel about this type of schedule, using your Squat variations:

Monday - Squat singles, Partial Deads

Wed - Chains, Deficit Deads

Fri - Deadlifts, Partial Box SQ

So in effect just 2 exercises per day, and 48 hours to recover between sessions. However this would involve both a Squat and Dead variation each day.
Fazc is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 10-29-2011, 08:33 AM   #6
Fazc
Fazc
is feeling squirrely!
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77
Activity: 36% Activity: 36% Activity: 36%
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: U.K
Posts: 5,554
Training Exp: 12+ years
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Fav Supp: Chicken
My Mood: Yeehaw
Reputation: 420568
Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
I have been considering 1-2 heavy weeks followed by a lighter week of volume work at 50-60%.
I think that's a definite, and for the planned deload to be warranted the loading needs to be much more severe than what would normally be planned for. Hence the above post.
Fazc is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 10-29-2011, 09:06 AM   #7
BendtheBar
BendtheBar
is getting skinny(ish)
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,541,050, Level: 100 Points: 1,541,050, Level: 100 Points: 1,541,050, Level: 100
Activity: 50% Activity: 50% Activity: 50%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 
Extreme Mini Golf Champion!Tournaments Won: 6

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,567
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
My Mood: Lurking
Reputation: 2572864
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazc View Post
How would you feel about this type of schedule, using your Squat variations:

Monday - Squat singles, Partial Deads

Wed - Chains, Deficit Deads

Fri - Deadlifts, Partial Box SQ

So in effect just 2 exercises per day, and 48 hours to recover between sessions. However this would involve both a Squat and Dead variation each day.
I think it's solid. The partial box squats are easiest for me so pairing them with heavier deadlifts makes sense.

Deficit deads...believe it or not I did these for 2.5 years running without knowing it. My plates are from Wal-mart and 1.5 inches short of diameter. I am thinking about something LTL and I talked about...sumo deficits.

I received very strong carryover last year from sumos to conventional. I think perhaps if I did deficits it might make sense to perform sumos.

I also feel I need to add in weight situps and side bends. These take me 5 minutes max, but when I don't perform them my squat eccentrics suffer.

Also, I seem to benefit from power shrugs, so on partial day I might add in a couple sets at the end.

Now, rows...they have helped my lockout strength. I would probably keep them a part of my pressing days, with perhaps a press, row, press, scheme. Thoughts?
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."



Last edited by BendtheBar; 10-29-2011 at 09:09 AM.
BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 10-29-2011, 09:14 AM   #8
Off Road
Off Road
has no status.
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83 Points: 17,091, Level: 83
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
 
Off Road's Avatar
 
Tournaments Won: 9

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7,607
Reputation: 786994
Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!Off Road is one with Crom!


Default

Subbed. Can't wait to see what you guys hash out of this.
Off Road is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 10-29-2011, 09:25 AM   #9
Fazc
Fazc
is feeling squirrely!
Senior Member
Max Brawn
Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77 Points: 14,403, Level: 77
Activity: 36% Activity: 36% Activity: 36%
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: U.K
Posts: 5,554
Training Exp: 12+ years
Training Type: Powerlifting
Fav Exercise: Bench Press
Fav Supp: Chicken
My Mood: Yeehaw
Reputation: 420568
Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!Fazc is one with Crom!


Default

I picked the Deadlift variations at random, we'd each pick the 3 we think would be most helpful to us. So in as much as I like deficit deads, (especially Sumo) it's not as useful for an equipped dead. Or perhaps I'm wrong, some longer range of motion stuff should still be included, equipped or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
Also, I seem to benefit from power shrugs, so on partial day I might add in a couple sets at the end.
That could definitely work, the partials could be done over a range of different heights as long as the overall volume is maintained.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BendtheBar View Post
Now, rows...they have helped my lockout strength. I would probably keep them a part of my pressing days, with perhaps a press, row, press, scheme. Thoughts?
Yep, some upper back work needs to be in somewhere and if you only want to Press twice then that could work fine. But we don't want to risk diluting the routine with too many exercises or producing residual fatigue if you sandwich the Bent Row between two lower body days. How would you fit that in overall?

Here's what I'm thinking, again just thinking out loud, nothing definite yet:

Day 1:
CGBP (sling) - 6 triples

Day 2:
Squat (briefs/wraps) - 8 singles
Partial Sumo - 6 triples

Day 3: OFF or
Overhead Press - 6 triples
Chins - 6 x

Day 4:
Box Squat - 6 triples
Deficit Deadlifts - 6 triples

Day 5:

Bench Press (sling) - 8 singles
CG 3 Boards - 6 triples

Day 6:

Sumo Dead (brief/wraps) - 8 singles
Partial Squat - 6 triples

Day 7: OFF

Repeat for two weeks then take a week where you train maybe twice a week, at 50% on the main lifts.

Edit - Practically speaking, you could do all that in 3 days per week, if you did 3 exercises a session. We agreed that two main per day is probably the way to go.

Last edited by Fazc; 10-29-2011 at 09:31 AM.
Fazc is offline   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Old 10-29-2011, 11:59 AM   #10
BendtheBar
BendtheBar
is getting skinny(ish)
Bearded Beast of Duloc
Max Brawn
Points: 1,541,050, Level: 100 Points: 1,541,050, Level: 100 Points: 1,541,050, Level: 100
Activity: 50% Activity: 50% Activity: 50%
 
BendtheBar's Avatar
 
Extreme Mini Golf Champion!Tournaments Won: 6

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 80,567
Training Exp: 20+ years
Training Type: Powerbuilding
Fav Exercise: Deadlift
Fav Supp: Butter
My Mood: Lurking
Reputation: 2572864
BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!BendtheBar is one with Crom!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazc View Post
I picked the Deadlift variations at random, we'd each pick the 3 we think would be most helpful to us.
I gotcha. Glad you did because it got me thinking about sumos.

Quote:
Yep, some upper back work needs to be in somewhere and if you only want to Press twice then that could work fine. But we don't want to risk diluting the routine with too many exercises or producing residual fatigue if you sandwich the Bent Row between two lower body days. How would you fit that in overall?
I generally don't need much work for back. Usually one set of dumbbell rows or a couple of barbell rows a week to keep my strength up.

I was mulling over:

Day 1
Heavy bench - Work up in singles, back off set with 275.
Dumbbell rows - 1 set
Military Press -

Day 2
Heavy military - Work up in singles, back off set with 185.
Barbell rows - 1-2 working sets
Bench Press/CGBP -

Consistent heavy work has not been a part of my workouts in a year or more because of the strains and pains. But, adding the Sling Shot I was able to train heavy every week. I may be able to do triples on bench on the second day but I will need a month to see how my body is handling the heavy days first.

How are you structuring your triples? Ramped?

With bench and press I really need to take a new direction, so hopefully frequent heavy work will pay off.

Also not sure if I need 2 OHP days. Thoughts?
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Destroy That Which Destroys You

"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."



Last edited by BendtheBar; 10-29-2011 at 12:01 PM.
BendtheBar is online now   Reply With Quote


Share with Facebook
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
increasing, strength


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Increasing weight smalldon Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 5 06-02-2012 08:32 AM
Increasing strength during a cut MVP Powerlifting & Strength Training 3 03-12-2012 10:54 AM
Increasing testoserone levels jack3d Nutrition, Diet and Supplements 8 01-15-2012 01:32 AM
Increasing your bench! sneezingstardust Muscle Building and Bodybuilding 15 04-28-2010 06:36 AM
Increasing Deadlift Strength TitanWIP Powerlifting & Strength Training 22 12-23-2009 12:02 PM

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.