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Old 07-07-2011, 10:06 AM   #21
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Pre-Paleo I lived by the kcal in/ kcal out theory.
Since going Paleo and having been able to walk around at < 10%BF while eating well in excess of my mainatainance kcals I now believe food choices are more important.
I also believe that there are specific foods that even in a kcal defecit will stall fat loss. Dairy products seem to be superior at this. Nature designed milk for massive tissue increase at an accelerated rate.

Although I firmly stand by "No one can out train a poor diet" I think that there are tricks in training that can create a greater metabolic effect towards fat loss, ie. Tabata Protocols, strength & power circuits, etc....
This bit is interesting to me, because I drink a lot of milk and am keen to lose weight. Do you have any studies you can point me to on this subject?
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:07 AM   #22
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Vitality, Wlfdg good posts.

I don't know the full reasons behind why these extended routines work better, but frankly neither did the natural bodybuilders of the 40's and 50's yet they were done to good effect pre-contest. Just like the natural muscle building training methods are being dug up from the 40's and 50's the fat loss/pre-contest stuff deserves it's due too.
Thanks Fazc!
EPOC is all I can figure why they work.
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:11 AM   #23
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This bit is interesting to me, because I drink a lot of milk and am keen to lose weight. Do you have any studies you can point me to on this subject?
Sorry Abs, no studies, just anecdotal from helping other folks drop bodyfat.
I'm completely dairy intolerant, so it's all from helping other folks.
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:13 AM   #24
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Sorry Abs, no studies, just anecdotal from helping other folks drop bodyfat.
I'm completely dairy intolerant, so it's all from helping other folks.
In that case, I'd like to bend your ear about dairy substitutes you've tried.
I've got a tragic history with whey supps, and drink special milk free of a certain type of casein... and lactose is something of a problem for me too.
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Farmers walk: 240 kgs (530 lbs), 50 feet
Front squat: 100 kgs (220 lbs)
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:42 AM   #25
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In that case, I'd like to bend your ear about dairy substitutes you've tried.
I've got a tragic history with whey supps, and drink special milk free of a certain type of casein... and lactose is something of a problem for me too.
Sorry, I don't do substitutes.
I get my protein from meat, fish and eggs. Been working great for me for 44yrs.!
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:39 AM   #26
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Vitality, Wlfdg good posts.

I don't know the full reasons behind why these extended routines work better, but frankly neither did the natural bodybuilders of the 40's and 50's yet they were done to good effect pre-contest. Just like the natural muscle building training methods are being dug up from the 40's and 50's the fat loss/pre-contest stuff deserves it's due too.
This is one area I am undereducated about. I have read some, but not enough. Very interested in these "pre-modern" cutting and diet approaches.
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:35 PM   #27
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This is one area I am undereducated about. I have read some, but not enough. Very interested in these "pre-modern" cutting and diet approaches.
Since I started using these extended workouts a few years back now, I have literally scoured the entire internet for useful sources of information regarding how this was done. What is clear is increasing workloads, days, sets, reps and decreasing time between sets and relative intensity was the basic idea. The actual routines vary from person to person but the principles are the same.

From Park: The Tight Tan Slacks of Dezso Ban: Definition - Reg Park

"But modern bodybuilders have discovered that for the utmost in definition . . . the utmost that your physical type will allow you to procude . . . higher sets with moderate reps and MORE TYPES OF EXERCISE are necessary."

From Reeves: Classic Physique Builder: Steve Reeves on Classic Definition and Reducing!

"If there was a contest coming up, I would simply train a little harder. In other words, I would just train a little bit faster and increase the intensity of my workouts by having less rest time in between sets and muscle groups."

From Ross: http://muscleandbrawn.com/forums/cla...ence-ross.html

"I went into a definition program. In doing this I followed the same exercises, but increased the repetitions to 15 or 20 and shortened my rest breaks between exercises. Here too, such a plan has since always suited me best"

From Grimek: The Tight Tan Slacks of Dezso Ban: Hips, Hips, Away! - John Grimek

High reps can tear down adiposity and prevent this unwanted tissue from forming...
Most bodybuilders think that 5-6 reps are enough. It will be enough to build leg strength if you use heavy poundages, but if you hope to reduce the hips quickly increase your reps to 15-25, then increase the weight and do a set of 12-15 more.


From Scott: The Tight Tan Slacks of Dezso Ban: Training Down - Larry Scott

An intensive training program is needed to burn up the excess stored fat and bring out maximum definition. You must work out fast, with not too much rest between sets. Generally speaking, you will be performing between 50 and 60 sets each workout period. You will have to train six days a week for best results, about two hours each workout session

There is a mass of information within the McCallum classic Keys to Progress and a mass of information of the sites I linked above.

The lifters differ on exactly how much they increase their workload, I imagine this would be down to personal preference and however fast their metabolisms are etc. etc. What is absolutely clear though is that they all strived to increase workload and decrease rest between sets to burn off fat.
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:26 PM   #28
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My take on it is that this type of training takes you through the immediate and non-oxydative energy systems. The incomplete rest periods never really allows you to get out of the non-oxidative energy system and brings into the early stages of the oxidative energy system.

This can potentially, completely, deplete muscle glycogen stores bringing about the EPOC effect so your body is burning fat stores for energy while trying to replenish glycogen stores.

Just my
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