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Nutrition, Diet and Supplements Discuss nutrition, diet, cutting and weight loss. Supplement discussions as well.

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Old 04-23-2011, 05:40 AM   #1
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Default Low Carbs, no carbs ???

it is almost time for me to start slowly leaning out I will just clean up the diet for a month or so, but then to really try to lose the body fat (something i havent done for a long time) I am intrigued by the low carb diet that Iron Addict recommended, but when he states NO CARBS... how 'NO' is no. I mean most foods I look at have some kind of carb content eg. nuts, cheese, milk, even veggies and salad.

Am I over thinking this to cut them out completely, or is it more a case of limiting the carbs to about 5g per meal and excluding the real carby stuff like bread, pasta, oats, rice, potatoes etc etc..

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Old 04-23-2011, 05:48 AM   #2
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To remain in ketosis you need less than 25grams per day I think. These will all be made up of incidental carb's from whey, veggies etc. This number is obviously slightly arbitrary as we are all different sizes, metabolisms, etc but I would NOT eat any carb' sources early on in a paleo or keto diet as they will make you feel RANK afterwards. After a couple of weeks of this a good carb' up will make you feel amazing and can become a regular feature.

The biggest problem I had when on a no carb' diet was everyone else's opinions about it. If you can cope with this, you'll be golden.

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Old 04-23-2011, 07:21 AM   #3
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It's been a while since I read IA's approach to no carb. Anyone have the Cliffs handy? Just wondering if there are:

--Calorie recommendations
--Protein/Fat ratio recommendations

I will say if it comes from IA, it's been used successfully on many clients. IA is not afraid of what most consider non-conventional eating approaches, and he knows his stuff.

Not directly addressing your question but I think allowing your body to take a break from the insulin rollercoaster, and allowing your body to become a little less "insulin sensitive", can only help when finished out your cut.
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Old 04-23-2011, 07:45 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by LtL View Post
To remain in ketosis you need less than 25grams per day I think. These will all be made up of incidental carb's from whey, veggies etc. This number is obviously slightly arbitrary as we are all different sizes, metabolisms, etc but I would NOT eat any carb' sources early on in a paleo or keto diet as they will make you feel RANK afterwards. After a couple of weeks of this a good carb' up will make you feel amazing and can become a regular feature.

The biggest problem I had when on a no carb' diet was everyone else's opinions about it. If you can cope with this, you'll be golden.

LtL
The range for ketosis varies per person. I will speak only for myself. Once in Ketosis, I must exceed about 100g of carbs for multiple days. My experience is that one pizza meal will not kick me out, but a full day or two of high carbs will. Once you get into ketosis, which is not absolutely necessary for a low carb approach to be affective, you will have to play with your daily intake to find that level or point that kicks you out.

Carl you are correct that it is near impossible to eat NO carbs. There are trace carbs in most everything. What you have to watch are all the items you don't think about. Drinks, condiments, flavorings, health foods, etc... One key that is so hard to get over is the low fat issue. Not sure how it has been in the UK, but the low fat police are horrible here, you will need the fats for energy. You will have to convince yourself that fat is good. I remind myself that "Fat is the new carb."

I too would love to see some of IA's stuff in a compilation. I have read some articles and posts he wrote, but have not seen it all together. A couple of things I have learned from Layne Norton's stuff. 1, On training days, my only intentional carbs are about an hour pre-workout. 2. Make use of BCAA, I like X-tend best, but am currently using some bulk bcaa and crystal light, during the day, between meals. 3. Besure to keep protein at least 1g per pound. Protein is thermogenic and will assist in maintaining muscle while burning fat. The most common problem I have seen with folks on a low carb diet is not too many carbs or too little fat, but too little protein. They lose quickly, but end up losing muscle. The protein helps maintain the muscle while burning the fat. So, when setting up macros, start with the protein, not carbs, then fats, finally make carbs the after thought. This will almost ensure that you will keep carbs low. It will still boil down to calories in calories out. The main advantage to low carb is that it is satiating, so you tend to eat fewer calories and yet feel satisfied.

My rambling 2 cents for now. Let me know what IA stuff you find. When I get some time, I will help hunt.
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Old 04-23-2011, 07:52 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by bamazav View Post
I too would love to see some of IA's stuff in a compilation.
He has a book. I own it and reference it often.

It is one of the best on our niche.

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Old 04-23-2011, 07:56 AM   #6
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A couple of references from his forums

Iron Addicts Forums - View Single Post - Basic Diet Information

Iron Addicts Forums - View Single Post - Important Dieting Tips

I have seen the book, I will need to purchase it when the Lord provides some extra cash. Between his articles/ forum, Layne Norton's articles, Jeff Volek's articles and book (TNT), I have a pretty good resource library and foundation.
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Old 04-23-2011, 08:20 AM   #7
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This is the info i was refering to. He says NO CARBS on non taining days (except for carb up days) bu he also mentions 6-8g per meal. I was just wondering about things like nuts, cheese, milk etc etc.. I like the look of this diet and think i could do it (Im just gonna clean things up a bit first for a few weeks then start this diet to get as lean as possible before October and actually see what muscle i have built as i dont think i have ever been below about 13-14 %)
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Timed Carb Diets

A timed carb diet works on the same basic principle as a keto-diet. Take away the bodies preferred fuel source (carbs) and provide enough fat in the diet that the body will switch to using fat as the fuel. But instead of going 5-6 days without ANY carbs, this diet allows you to take in carbs when they are most needed, and least likely to spill over into fat storesóright after the workout. Also, since we are not worried about actually hitting ketosis and staying in ketosis, if you slip, or just feel the need to bump up carbs a bit to replenish glycogen stores, you didnít just bump yourself out of the ketogenic state you just spent 2 days to achieve.

What do these diets accomplish?
Fat is burned as the preferred fuel source and protein (read that muscle) is spared.
Performance in the gym stays good.
Thyroid function remains higher for a longer period of time.
You donít go out of your head waiting 5 days to eat some damn carbs!

OK, now the how-to of a timed carb diet. Again, we are trying to get the body to switch from being a carb or protein-burning machine into a fat burning machine. Remember, if caloric levels are low, and carbs, thus insulin is high, your body will convert protein to carbs via glucogenisys and that is to be avoided at all costs. Anyway, to get on the path of burning fat as fuel, we simply remove the carbs out of the equation, AND keep fat in the diet at (at least) a 40-50% ratio. This lets the body know there is still a primary fuel source (fat) and allows it to be burned as fuel, while sparing protein

So, we decide to start a timed carb diet on Monday. Sunday night you cut out the carbs about three hours before bed. When you wake up in the morning blood sugar levels will be very low, and your body will be wanting some carbs---too bad, it doesnít get any! You will eat only fat and protein. Ensuring fat makes up at LEAST 40% of the caloric profile. You may have a leafy green salad with oil based dressing, or some string-beans, or other such low-carb veggie, BUT NO MORE THAN 6-8 grams of carbs per feeding. You keep this up right until pre-workout, where an apple is allowed IF you feel the need to put a few carbs in your system to raise energy levels. MOST guys do not find this to be necessary and if it does not provide a big advantage DONíT do it. If the carbs donít help much, have a small protein drink and proceed with the workout.

Post-workout, and itís time to replenish the carb-stores in the muscles you just worked. As the vast majority of you already know, immediately after a hard weight training session there is a ďwindow of opportunityĒ in the muscle cell when insulin sensitivity is very high and the body is most receptive to nutrient uptake. SoÖ..you slam down 65-100 grams of fast liquid carbs (malto-dextrin, dextrose, and yes, even sucrose will work). About 10 minutes later follow it up with a 65-100 gram whey protein drink. As soon as you are hungry again, you can eat a small ďregularĒ meal with a 40/30/30 protein/carb/fat profile to ďtop off the tankĒ of glycogen stores in the muscle. Then, you are back to zero or trace amounts of carbs until the next workout.

You then repeat the this format for a maximum of five days, and then have a 1-2 day carb-up. On days that you donít train, you donít eat any carbs except for a green salad or two. You do not have to run these no carb to carb days for the full five days and for many of you, having a lower ratio of no carb Vs. carb days will be advantageous. Also you do NOT have to do the carb days back-to back. You may do a couple of no carb days, followed by one or more carb days. This is determined on YOUR metabolism and how fast you want to drop the bodyfat.
Pretty simple huh? Well, I havenít given you ALL the details, but close enough to get most of you at least much closer to being able to put together a successful diet plan on your own, and if you want to have ALL the details in place, consider having me train you!

Doís and doníts:
If you donít keep the fat ratio AT LEAST 40% your body will just continue to use carbs as fuel. How does this happen if all you are eating is chicken breasts as an example? Well your body has no problems converting protein to carbs and WILL do this if it doesnít sense an alternate fuel source (fats.)
This type of diet tends to work best with lower overall workout days, so if you are a volume trainer who is in the gym 6 days a week (bad idea in any case IMO) you will see decreased results since every day will be a carb day. It will still work however.

Log your food intake for at LEAST a week to ensure you are hitting your numbers for both macro-nutrient profile, and overall kcals. You might just find out how far off you are from where you ďthoughtĒ you were.

Your carb-up days are designed to refill the glycogen stores in the muscle, and bump up caloric levels a bit to keep your thyroid off balance. They are not go all-out berserk pig-out days. MANY, MANY lifters make this mistake and cancel out all the fat loss they achieved up until the carb-up day(s).

Do cardio when dieting. No it is not mandatory, but it makes such a big difference for such little effort and time expended that is extremely short-sighted to not include it as part of your fat-loss plan.

Donít be in a big hurry to drop the bodyfat. You didnít get fat overnight (well, some of you almost did) so donít try to lose it overnight. You should work along the lines of about this much fat loss a week:
150-200 lb trainees, 1.5 lbs a week
200-250 lb trainees, 2 lbs a week
250+ 2 to 2-1/2b lbs a week

Going much more aggressive than that and strength gains will slow or stop, and catabolism may set in.

If you are just starting a reduced volume (or realistic training program) the scale may be worthless at first. Many people are able to gain a significant amount of muscle when dieting like this. Use the mirror and calipers (or better yet hydro-static weighing) to determine your rate of success.

You WILL end up looking flat by day 3-4, this is NOT representative of what you will look like when fully carbed-up. Remember, each gram of glycogen in the muscle brings 3 grams of water with it. When glycogen stores are down (and they will be) when doing low carbs you will ďappearĒ smaller. Itís just water, donít sweat it!

This type of diet lends itself well to getting a large percentage of daily caloric levels from protein powder and EFAís (essential fatty acids), and that makes it convenient to do.

I will at some point put out another article aimed at how to stay lean while adding mass, and as you might guess it is a variation of this basic format.

There you go, get that damn bodyfat off you and become a true bodybuilder. You know, one who isnít afraid to take his shirt off-lol.
thanks for helping guys

Carl.
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Old 04-23-2011, 08:38 AM   #8
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IA's info is what I based my diet off of and I F'ing love it.
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Old 04-23-2011, 08:41 AM   #9
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IA's info is what I based my diet off of and I F'ing love it.
What kind of stuff do you eat G. do you take in things like nuts, milk, cheese and that kind of stuff or drop them completely because of the carbs ?? If i cut carbs completely i would be just eating meat and eggs lol. Or is it more a case of not eating bread, pasta, rice, potatoes and other carb heavy foods ??

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Old 04-23-2011, 08:52 AM   #10
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My approach is;
  • Beef, fish and chicken.
  • Natty peanut butter and almonds.
  • Milk, cheese, cottage cheese and eggs.
  • Lots of Whey
  • The only veggie I eat currently is Spinache

I don't sweat the carbs found in the dairy, nuts and spinach.
I do not eat any breads, pastas, sugars, rice, grains, potatoes, etc. etc.

5-6 meals a day with a protein source and a fat source, and at dinner Ill have Spinach with my Protein and Fat sources.

One cheat meal a week.
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