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-   -   Urges to lift for mass? (http://www.muscleandbrawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8354)

tank 12-26-2011 11:09 AM

Urges to lift for mass?
 
i will admit my vanity and old bodybuilding mentality is sneaking up on me a bit. i sometimes wish i was doing more work for size, but with the inclusion of dips and chin ups on "day 5" of madcow's intermediate routine, i am relunctant to add any accessory/supplementary work for this purpose.

i feel that the nature of madcow's linear progression and my strength training goals dictate that i should not add exercises if they are not intended to increase my strength.

i haven't been a "small" guy since i was a teenager. that being said, the "size" that a lot guys put on while strength training hasn't had as great of an impact on my physique as it would those lifters. working with a 5x5 rep/set scheme, can i expect to continue to put on size once the weights are heavy enough to necessitate that change? or, will there be a point when i'll have to specifically augment my training with some higher rep exercises to facilitate this growth? (for aesthetic reasons as well as strength)

anyone else struggle with this feeling occasionally? :march:

Off Road 12-26-2011 11:18 AM

Have you heard of Reg Park?
Do you think 5x5 won't build muscle?
Do you think that the basic exercises won't build muscle?

bruteforce 12-26-2011 11:18 AM

I totally understand where you are coming from. I want to be terrifyingly huge. I want to be so big that muggers will offer me their wallets. However, in terms of getting to that goal, I need to be A LOT stronger than I am right now so I can lift weights big enough to make it happen. As for when to make the transition, I have no clue, but I completely understand the feeling.

tank 12-26-2011 11:21 AM

i'd have to read more about reg park. i am not familiar.

BendtheBar 12-26-2011 11:36 AM

Most of my lifting over the years has been in the 4-6 rep range with 25% of sets going to maybe to 10 reps.

One thing I will say is that a 5x5 is great for size and strength. There is certainly nothing wrong with adding in things like dips, pullups, etc, but always remember that progression on the basics is the best size builder. A good diet and a strong push towards a 3-4-5 total can add a good amount of muscle.

I think there is a middle ground. Training should be fun and it you would like to add in a few exercises then there are certainly good ways to do it. There are many fullbody workouts that allow for more than 3 lifts per day.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I don't think you need to squat 3x a week. If you want some other alternatives that provide a few more exercises per day we can make a few suggestions.

Strength can be built on most programs as long as the basics are in place and you have a defined progression approach.

Fazc 12-26-2011 11:37 AM

I think people under estimate just how strong you need to get before you have the size where you look visibly muscular.

Take a look at Emeka from this forum, the man is stacked! And he's very strong to boot. Jslep is the same way, most others are too. Just having a basic level of strength will NOT look impressive unless you have a very low bodyfat.

Squats and deadlifts of around 300 just aren't going to lead to an impressive level if development, despite being stronger than most people in the gym. That really is just a reflection on the extremely poor standards in most gyms.

Off Road 12-26-2011 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fazc (Post 201151)
Squats and deadlifts of around 300 just aren't going to lead to an impressive level if development.

But 300 lbs for 20 reps is another matter entirely :mh:

BendtheBar 12-26-2011 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fazc (Post 201151)
Squats and deadlifts of around 300 just aren't going to lead to an impressive level if development, despite being stronger than most people in the gym. .

I agree with Fazc. My best personal gains came from pushing from a 225 bench to a 350 bench, a 275 squat to a 450 squat, etc.

I would also say that far too many people underestimate how strong they can get in a short amount of time as a "beginner" to early intermediate. I do not feel I am in any way a genetic freak. After 18 months of lifting I was squatting 365 for reps and benching 275 for reps.

It is very common to see very slow progression, and people getting frustrated. Check out any lifting forum and you will find a lot of guys that have been training for a long time 4-6 years) that aren't squatting 315 for reps yet. I mean no disrespect to them at all, as there are many possible reasons (one being age), but there has to be a good middle ground.

This middle ground to me is the use of a program that focuses on linear progression in a reasonable manner.

If someone came to me personally and wanted me to train them I would expect 275-315 for reps on squats during the end of year one. I also would recommend a lot of food, as year 1-2 have the greatest potential for rapid progress and I do not like to hinder that by walking the fine line close to undereating.

Just my 2 cents.

tank 12-26-2011 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fazc (Post 201151)
I think people under estimate just how strong you need to get before you have the size where you look visibly muscular.

Take a look at Emeka from this forum, the man is stacked! And he's very strong to boot. Jslep is the same way, most others are too. Just having a basic level of strength will NOT look impressive unless you have a very low bodyfat.

Squats and deadlifts of around 300 just aren't going to lead to an impressive level if development, despite being stronger than most people in the gym. That really is just a reflection on the extremely poor standards in most gyms.

so are you suggesting that bodyfat will have more impact on your appearance of muscularity than rep/set schemes?

it is my understanding that the low rep for strength, high rep for hypertrophy has been pretty universally accepted. am i incorrect?

like you said, someone that can lift very heavy weight may not "appear" to be able to do so because of this. also, the lifter that is very muscular, no matter his bodyfat, may not be as strong. considering this is what let me to ask my original question.

BendtheBar 12-26-2011 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Off Road (Post 201154)
But 300 lbs for 20 reps is another matter entirely :mh:

You aren't kidding. I would love to do that.


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