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-   -   Squats and Deadlifts on the same day (http://www.muscleandbrawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14941)

BendtheBar 09-12-2013 02:26 PM

Squats and Deadlifts on the same day
 
Long story short, I created an intermediate workout which featured squats and deadlifts on the same day. Week 1 was heavy squats and moderate deadlift weight and reps. Week 2 was the opposite.

Nothing super taxing or extreme.

I was met with a lecture:




Quote:

I sincerely think that this program has a huge fundamental flaw. In that, the central nervous system has autonomic processes which help to stimulate the correct neuromuscular pathways with technique oriented motions, such as the deadlift and squat. As you continue to progress in these movement patterns and increases in load the central nervous system compensates by essentially triggering the correct muscles to activate at the proper time to maxamize load while minimizing energy expendature. By doing 2 sequential complex moves that require proper neuromuscular coordination, one could expect a technical breakdown of the second motion as well as improper positioning the the first (i.e. if you squat first then your deadlifts are both compromised in form and weight since these 2 exercises are, technique wise, independent of each other).

I realize the idea of this program is to stimulate the primary mover muscles for hypertrophy. However, it's neither ideal nor is it safe to use heavier weights in this program. You would be better off doing some other program.

5kgLifter 09-12-2013 02:31 PM

The excuse that you can't squat and deadlift in the same workout is weak. Andy Bolton squats and deadlifts heavy in the same workout, and so does Konstantinovs and they are stronger than you.


http://www.lift-run-bang.com/2010/05...layout-in.html

Off Road 09-12-2013 02:36 PM

He writes really purdy though :)
Makes it seem intelligent.

BigJosh 09-12-2013 02:48 PM

Big words....
I've done 3 different routines that I can think of over the years that had squats and deads on the same day. RIppetoe Novice program, Madcow 5x5 and and the 20 rep squat H/L/M routine (which i believe is from an article that you wrote). All 3 routines where very successful for me at the time. So much so, that I would probably be open to using madcow and the 20 rep squat routine again in the future, now that I stop and think about it.
I would suggest that Mr. Brainiac try it for a couple months and see what kind of results he gets. Does He Even Lift?

BendtheBar 09-12-2013 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Off Road (Post 406990)
He writes really purdy though :)
Makes it seem intelligent.

Anything to justify his adopted view of reality.

I have no proof that he exists, though I am quite confident he owns a thesaurus.

Tannhauser 09-12-2013 03:28 PM

The problem isn't his choice of vocabulary (c'mon guys, really? :) ), it's that what he's saying doesn't make any sense.

Quote:

In that, the central nervous system has autonomic processes which help to stimulate the correct neuromuscular pathways with technique oriented motions, such as the deadlift and squat..
Voluntary movement is initiated by the prefrontal cortex and then activated by messages from the motor cortex. As far as I know, you wouldn't call this an autonomic (automatic) process; that's more correctly applied to processes like breathing. But that aside, fair enough, the CNS controls deadlift and squats, just like it does writing your name or drinking a cup of cocoa.

Quote:

As you continue to progress in these movement patterns and increases in load the central nervous system compensates by essentially triggering the correct muscles to activate at the proper time to maxamize load while minimizing energy expendature.
I'm not sure what he's on about here, though. As the load gets greater, the CNS tries to maximise load? How can the CNS change movement to maximise load? Load on what? And why would it do that? And how would maximising load manage to minimise energy expenditure? I don't get it.

Quote:

By doing 2 sequential complex moves that require proper neuromuscular coordination...
All movements involve proper neuromuscular coordination,including getting up off the couch.

Quote:

... one could expect a technical breakdown of the second motion as well as improper positioning the the first...
OK, I get that it might be difficult to do a complex second motion if you're exhausted from the first. But I can't see how the sequencing of two movements affects the first of these.

Quote:

(i.e. if you squat first then your deadlifts are both compromised in form and weight since these 2 exercises are, technique wise, independent of each other).
But if the movements are independent of each other, why does one compromise the other?

I think that overall, he's just saying that the first exercise will compromise the second. I think it does, to some extent. But after a period of adaptation, it's often less then might be expected, and the benefits of higher frequency can more than offset that.

MarAri 09-12-2013 04:02 PM

People with those kind of concerns will never get anywhere. It's not rocket science that we do.

Henry19 09-12-2013 08:55 PM

I'm gonna go ahead and say that he's overthinking concepts without practing/experimenting with them.

Randoja 09-12-2013 10:21 PM

Lol

Purus Labs Rep
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Bronco 09-12-2013 10:32 PM

The lecturer is mostly correct, actually.
Just forgot the final clause

Quote:

...
I realize the idea of this program is to stimulate the primary mover muscles for hypertrophy. However, it's neither ideal nor is it safe to use heavier weights in this program. You would be better off doing some other program, if you are a pansy.


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