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-   -   Some Back-up (http://www.muscleandbrawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10320)

Off Road 06-19-2012 03:49 PM

Some Back-up
 
I've been saying this very thing for many years now and I've been "blasted" for it on many occassions (not on this forum). Now, it's nice to have a little back-up from a big name in the industry...

"A raw novice's time would be better spent doing bodyweight training. You should be able to perform 100 push-ups, minimum, before even approaching a bench press. Add in pull-ups, lunges, and the other bodyweight staples to complete the program.

After a decent base of bodyweight strength has been developed, I'd next perform a sensible linear progression routine until respectable strength levels are achieved. 5/3/1 by my friend Jim Wendler and Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe would fit the bill perfectly, with assistance work programmed to target any emerging weak points in size and strength.

However, after a certain threshold of development – say a 1.5 x bodyweight bench press, a 2 x bodyweight squat, and a 2.5 x bodyweight deadlift – it's time to step it up."


-Dave Tate

Kuytrider 06-19-2012 03:54 PM

I also think a novice would do well to learn really good technique using just the bar and perhaps a few added pounds.
But yeah, for teens especially but all novices, patience and bodyweight exercises are good stuff.

glwanabe 06-19-2012 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuytrider (Post 252411)
I also think a novice would do well to learn really good technique using just the bar and perhaps a few added pounds.
But yeah, for teens especially but all novices, patience and bodyweight exercises are good stuff.

Totally agreed!

Learn to lift the bar first, and then when ready add in some squat racks.

Don't be in a rush to bench.

Off Road 06-19-2012 04:06 PM

He goes on to explain that "Stepping it up" means that you can devote yourself to the pursuit of bodybuilding or powerlifting and all the methods that those entail.

Many of us say the same stuff here; Get strong first and then specialize

BendtheBar 06-19-2012 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Off Road (Post 252409)
However, after a certain threshold of development – say a 1.5 x bodyweight bench press, a 2 x bodyweight squat, and a 2.5 x bodyweight deadlift – it's time to step it up."[/I]

-Dave Tate

Could easily align this with the 3-4-5 standard. That's generally what I use as a focal point. If you can run progression to that point, and want more, it's generally time to "up" your game. Bodybuilding or powerlifting. I consider the process of getting to the 3-4-5 as "base building", or whatever you want to call it.

Good post OR. Made me think more about bodyweight usage during the first 8-12 weeks of programming. Though I have used them myself, I have not been advocating them for rank novices (yet).

So few people get to 3-4-5. So many guys over-complicating things before that point.

Fazc 06-19-2012 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Off Road (Post 252419)
He goes on to explain that "Stepping it up" means that you can devote yourself to the pursuit of bodybuilding or powerlifting and all the methods that those entail.

Many of us say the same stuff here; Get strong first and then specialize

Yep.

Fazc 06-19-2012 04:08 PM

Just curious OR, what in particular did you get blasted over? I don't see anything massively controversial in what you're saying.

Off Road 06-19-2012 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fazc (Post 252422)
Just curious OR, what in particular did you get blasted over? I don't see anything massively controversial in what you're saying.

A lot of the guys on BtB's forum "over yonder" and my own forum "over yonder" think it's an absolute waste of time. They think that it's a much better use of time to jump under the bar right away and start pushing it. And as BtB pointed out, they always want to over-complicate things.

BendtheBar 06-19-2012 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fazc (Post 252422)
Just curious OR, what in particular did you get blasted over? I don't see anything massively controversial in what you're saying.

I don't want to speak for OR, but when I first took over another forum and brought similar ideas I was nearly crucified - no exaggeration. The mods wanted me run out of town, and were belligerent about it. They wanted me fired. Obviously I wasn't pushing bodyweight work, but I was pushing simplicity and foundation building.

This idea nearly cost me my job. People wanted my head, and I was called an idiot more times than I want to admit.

There are still many people in this niche who view a lot of this stuff as old fashioned, archaic, and infringing upon their split worldview.

Ask anyone from LTL to Babs. They know what hell I went through. I vented to them way too many times.

Off Road 06-19-2012 04:17 PM

Same experiences that I had too.


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