Strength and Singles

[Off Road]

Originally Posted by Fazc

Depends at what intensity these singles are done...This can happen with any rep range.

Too much intensity for too long, adding on top of that a healthy dose of form degradation and that is the problem.

Excellent points!

[BendtheBar]

My 2 cents...

The real danger for me has been in doing too many singles relative to the percentage. This sounds rather vague, but it does vary slightly person to person, and it can vary for me day to day.

I notice at 90% work for example that I seem to run into a minor hamstring tweak around reps 4-5. The cumulative fatigue combined with minor form deterioration is enough to put me into a danger zone.

At 85% I am pretty safe working up to 8-10 or more, if I wanted too. The weight burden is not such that even with minor form deterioration or minor fatigue that it places me into any form of training danger.

95% singles need to be performed fresh, when my body is 100%, and when I am in a nice form groove. Even then, they are a one off for me.

But like Fazc said, entering this "spotty" zone isn't unique to singles. I've run things like 8x3 squats at 80% and was pushing myself into a zone of fatigue and form deterioration. Same with some 5x5s, 10 rep sets, etc.

When singles are foreign to a lifter they can often be approached recklessly. Limits have not been established, and a lifter may not know where his general sweet spot is.

The biggest mistake I made with singles (doubles and triples too) was assuming because one rep/set was solid that the next would be. In my opinion it's best to creep into them rather that jump into the deep end.

For example, if you're going to try 90%, don't just jump into 4 or 5 right away. Take a few weeks and try to feel things out. Perhaps you will find that 3 singles at 90% always seems to go well. Perhaps it's 2 or 4.

There are many variables involved, from age to bodypart weaknesses to a lifter's form.

[IronManlet]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

My 2 cents...

The real danger for me has been in doing too many singles relative to the percentage. This sounds rather vague, but it does vary slightly person to person, and it can vary for me day to day.

I notice at 90% work for example that I seem to run into a minor hamstring tweak around reps 4-5. The cumulative fatigue combined with minor form deterioration is enough to put me into a danger zone.

At 85% I am pretty safe working up to 8-10 or more, if I wanted too. The weight burden is not such that even with minor form deterioration or minor fatigue that it places me into any form of training danger.

95% singles need to be performed fresh, when my body is 100%, and when I am in a nice form groove. Even then, they are a one off for me.

But like Fazc said, entering this "spotty" zone isn't unique to singles. I've run things like 8x3 squats at 80% and was pushing myself into a zone of fatigue and form deterioration. Same with some 5x5s, 10 rep sets, etc.

When singles are foreign to a lifter they can often be approached recklessly. Limits have not been established, and a lifter may not know where his general sweet spot is.

The biggest mistake I made with singles (doubles and triples too) was assuming because one rep/set was solid that the next would be. In my opinion it's best to creep into them rather that jump into the deep end.

For example, if you're going to try 90%, don't just jump into 4 or 5 right away. Take a few weeks and try to feel things out. Perhaps you will find that 3 singles at 90% always seems to go well. Perhaps it's 2 or 4.

There are many variables involved, from age to bodypart weaknesses to a lifter's form.

Agreed. You have to crawl before you can walk, and if you're used to doing high-rep sets or 5x5 you need to start off on the slow end. Maybe with 5/4/3/2/1 or working your way into triples, then doubles, then singles.

[Fazc]

Originally Posted by Off Road

Excellent points!

Thanks OR.

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

For example, if you're going to try 90%, don't just jump into 4 or 5 right away. Take a few weeks and try to feel things out. Perhaps you will find that 3 singles at 90% always seems to go well. Perhaps it's 2 or 4.

There are many variables involved, from age to bodypart weaknesses to a lifter's form.

Just to add to that, it helps with these things not to even consider percentages. Just go by feel and start with 'easy' singles and do multiples from that. I know for me, multiple singles at 90% in a lift such as the Squat would still kill me and I'm pretty well inured to singles and to higher volume. So 90% can effect people differently and is also different when comparing lift to lift.

An aside; what I've found with higher volume training is that you don't always have to fill in the volume with the same lift. A nice variation I have been doing has be to work upto a daily max in one lift, say the Squat and then perform back off sets in another similar exercise such as either Partial Squat or Front Squat. That is a nice way of racking up volume while either focusing on a weakness or safeguarding an area, like the knees.

[big valsalva]

A couple of questions, being as I'm about to start training again.

1) Is it prudent to put forth a multi-front attack, i.e. work on singles on more than one or two lifts during an extended cycle? Should I focus on one lift, say deadlift, for instance, (being as I have a timely weight goal), or BP(since that is by far my weak link in the PL chain)? Or does it matter, since I plan on plenty of recovery between workouts and perhaps even 10 days between exercise specific workouts (Squat day, Bench Day, DL day, OHP day)?

2) Please discuss the amount of assistance work done during these singles phases. I would probably only attempt singles every other "week." Every fourth "week" would be a deload. I put the word "week" in quotes, because my training weeks run from Squat Day to Squat Day. Not always seven days in between. Never, in fact.

[bruteforce]

I'm currently having good luck with running 5 singles for squats, deads, and bench, followed by a rep goal of 10 reps over 3 sets after. One other day during the week, I have a 20 rep goal over 3 sets. Its been working out well for me so far, we'll see how far it takes me.

Started the singles at around 95% of my 1RM and am upping 5-10 pounds a week on them. Bench singles are 5 pounds over my previous tested max now, deadlifts are closing in, and squat is into a new PR each week now. Don't know how this setup will work for others, but I'm happy with it.

[Fazc]

Originally Posted by big valsalva

1) Is it prudent to put forth a multi-front attack, i.e. work on singles on more than one or two lifts during an extended cycle? Should I focus on one lift, say deadlift, for instance, (being as I have a timely weight goal), or BP(since that is by far my weak link in the PL chain)?

If you're just feeling this approach out then sure, pick one exercise and see how it feels. If you want to work the Bench then I'd definitely recommend some singles followed by some rep work either on the day or a few days later. The Bench generally responds very well to more work, not always more intensity, but certainly more work done in good form.

For me, I tend to do a lot of singles, doubles and triples across my training most of the week. So it certainly can work for all the lifts, but of course take it slow and feel the approach out for yourself first.

Or does it matter, since I plan on plenty of recovery between workouts and perhaps even 10 days between exercise specific workouts (Squat day, Bench Day, DL day, OHP day)?

That's really infrequent, I'd definitely consider adding in a variation in between those exercises. I'd definitely try and work each muscle group around twice a week. Working each of those 4 days across a single week for example works very well.

2) Please discuss the amount of assistance work done during these singles phases. I would probably only attempt singles every other "week."

Sounds good. Perhaps during the other week you could do something like 5 sets of 5, or 8 triples something like that. Anywhere between 20-30 reps.

Every fourth "week" would be a deload.

Great idea.

Originally Posted by bruteforce

I'm currently having good luck with running 5 singles for squats, deads, and bench, followed by a rep goal of 10 reps over 3 sets after. One other day during the week, I have a 20 rep goal over 3 sets. Its been working out well for me so far, we'll see how far it takes me.

Started the singles at around 95% of my 1RM and am upping 5-10 pounds a week on them. Bench singles are 5 pounds over my previous tested max now, deadlifts are closing in, and squat is into a new PR each week now. Don't know how this setup will work for others, but I'm happy with it.

That's a really nice set up Brute. Definitely my type of thing.

[IronManlet]

Originally Posted by big valsalva

A couple of questions, being as I'm about to start training again.

1) Is it prudent to put forth a multi-front attack, i.e. work on singles on more than one or two lifts during an extended cycle? Should I focus on one lift, say deadlift, for instance, (being as I have a timely weight goal), or BP(since that is by far my weak link in the PL chain)? Or does it matter, since I plan on plenty of recovery between workouts and perhaps even 10 days between exercise specific workouts (Squat day, Bench Day, DL day, OHP day)?

2) Please discuss the amount of assistance work done during these singles phases. I would probably only attempt singles every other "week." Every fourth "week" would be a deload. I put the word "week" in quotes, because my training weeks run from Squat Day to Squat Day. Not always seven days in between. Never, in fact.

I will say this: Heavy singles are brutal. You do not, I repeat, do NOT rush into them if you are used to doing high or medium rep ranges all the time.

I would suggest breaking into them slowly; starting off with 5/4/3/2/1 or some other scheme to get used to handling heavier weights on a consistent basis. Once you get used to that, you can start out with singles.

As long as you are getting enough recovery, I would do singles on many different lifts at once. I'll do singles for almost every heavy exercise I do.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'assistance work' because I train everything hard and heavy; as I aim for all-round strength. But I would imagine that if you are going to concentrate on a few specific lifts above all else, you would adjust your workload accordingly to cover other movements. i.e. Shoulders, upper back, etc.

[MikeM]

Originally Posted by big valsalva

A couple of questions, being as I'm about to start training again.

1) Is it prudent to put forth a multi-front attack, i.e. work on singles on more than one or two lifts during an extended cycle? Should I focus on one lift, say deadlift, for instance, (being as I have a timely weight goal), or BP(since that is by far my weak link in the PL chain)? Or does it matter, since I plan on plenty of recovery between workouts and perhaps even 10 days between exercise specific workouts (Squat day, Bench Day, DL day, OHP day)?

2) Please discuss the amount of assistance work done during these singles phases. I would probably only attempt singles every other "week." Every fourth "week" would be a deload. I put the word "week" in quotes, because my training weeks run from Squat Day to Squat Day. Not always seven days in between. Never, in fact.

All good answers above, but is it because you will only be able to work out twice a week or maybe 5 workouts in two weeks, or something like that, that you will have such a long time between workouts? So if you can only make the gym Monday and Thursday for example and you're doing 5-3-1 and a lift a day, that means you're not getting back to the first lift for quite a while?

If so, there is a two days a week 5-3-1, where you do Squat and Bench, and the other day Press and Deadlift. Does that help? Or am I off base? I thought I read where you were doing a form of 5-3-1, so I thought I'd throw that out there if it would help.

Also, that was a very good point by Fazc. I just assumed "singles" meant going for 100%, and I assumed rep sets were going to one less than failure. I can see now where you could push the envelope badly on rep sets by going too far, and also stay within just singles quite safely if you were being prudent and listening to your body. Thanks for the reminder never to assume!

As BtB says, mileage may vary, too.

[big valsalva]

Started the singles at around 95% of my 1RM and am upping 5-10 pounds a week on them. Bench singles are 5 pounds over my previous tested max now, deadlifts are closing in, and squat is into a new PR each week now. Don't know how this setup will work for others, but I'm happy with it.[/QUOTE]
Right on, bruteforce. That's pretty close to what I was imagining myself doing. Since I would be trying to incorporate this into a 5-3-1 format, I would hit the 95% during my third week. Maybe try two or three singles. THe first week might be say 90% for singles. The second week, back off slightly and follow the program for requisite weights/reps. Third week 95% for two or three singles. Fourth week deload.

My singles progression would likely increase by 5 or 10 pounds per cycle, and might -- overtime--- not be a true representation of my actual max ability. BUT heavy weights would be moved on a more regular basis than by running a conventional 5-3-1 scheme.

Originally Posted by Fazc

If you're just feeling this approach out then sure, pick one exercise and see how it feels. If you want to work the Bench then I'd definitely recommend some singles followed by some rep work either on the day or a few days later. The Bench generally responds very well to more work, not always more intensity, but certainly more work done in good form.

For me, I tend to do a lot of singles, doubles and triples across my training most of the week. So it certainly can work for all the lifts, but of course take it slow and feel the approach out for yourself first.



That's really infrequent, I'd definitely consider adding in a variation in between those exercises. I'd definitely try and work each muscle group around twice a week. Working each of those 4 days across a single week for example works very well.



Sounds good. Perhaps during the other week you could do something like 5 sets of 5, or 8 triples something like that. Anywhere between 20-30 reps.



Great idea.



That's a really nice set up Brute. Definitely my type of thing.

Thank you, Fazc. Great recommendations here. In an ideal situation, I'd beable to lift three times in a regular week, leaving one workout to carryover to begin the following week.

It would look like this:
ABC
DAB
CDA
BCD
Deload

So ideally I would be pressing four or five days apart, and squatting or deadlifting four or five days apart. Again, I say ideally. I've run this basic format in the past with real good success. I just haven't mesed around with adding singles.

Originally Posted by IronManlet

I will say this: Heavy singles are brutal. You do not, I repeat, do NOT rush into them if you are used to doing high or medium rep ranges all the time.

I would suggest breaking into them slowly; starting off with 5/4/3/2/1 or some other scheme to get used to handling heavier weights on a consistent basis. Once you get used to that, you can start out with singles.

As long as you are getting enough recovery, I would do singles on many different lifts at once. I'll do singles for almost every heavy exercise I do.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'assistance work' because I train everything hard and heavy; as I aim for all-round strength. But I would imagine that if you are going to concentrate on a few specific lifts above all else, you would adjust your workload accordingly to cover other movements. i.e. Shoulders, upper back, etc.

By "assistance work" I mean dips, skull crushers, chins, leg press, good mornings, etc. Basically anything that isn't totally gay, and would normally fit into your basic PL'er routine.

Originally Posted by MikeM

All good answers above, but is it because you will only be able to work out twice a week or maybe 5 workouts in two weeks, or something like that, that you will have such a long time between workouts? So if you can only make the gym Monday and Thursday for example and you're doing 5-3-1 and a lift a day, that means you're not getting back to the first lift for quite a while?

If so, there is a two days a week 5-3-1, where you do Squat and Bench, and the other day Press and Deadlift. Does that help? Or am I off base? I thought I read where you were doing a form of 5-3-1, so I thought I'd throw that out there if it would help.

Also, that was a very good point by Fazc. I just assumed "singles" meant going for 100%, and I assumed rep sets were going to one less than failure. I can see now where you could push the envelope badly on rep sets by going too far, and also stay within just singles quite safely if you were being prudent and listening to your body. Thanks for the reminder never to assume!

As BtB says, mileage may vary, too.

Yes Mike, 5-3-1 is my current favorite format. I'm comfortable with it. I'm used to it. But mostly I like the flexibility. By that I mean I don't feel locked in to HAVING to get my work done M/W/F, or whatever. I've learned that life doesn't always work out that way. Lifing is important to me, but my kids are more important. My wife is even more important than that. Sometimes I can't make it work every other day. Sometimes I CAN make it work, but I only have time to work the main lift, then I need to split.

That said, I'm sure that once I get back at it, things will morph into something completely different, and as long as I'm progressing, I'm OK with that.