Wendler: You Can Out Train Your Diet

[BendtheBar]

Yeah this certainly isn't pain related. I never push past tweaks or strains...ever. No exceptions. I shut down workouts if there is any concern.

I will add that it can be easy to read into an article like this and assume it carries with it some excess amount of machismo or call towards lunacy. I personally don't see it like that. "Not" training hard usually involves:

1) Avoiding the most potent lifts, or looking for an easier way.
2) Having no defined progression scheme.
3) Having no drive or sense of urgency.
4) Not facing mental challenges.

There is certainly nothing wrong with being a recreational lifter who exercises for health. There is certainly nothing wrong with not having the drive to deadlift 600. Personal goals are personal goals, end of story.

With all that said, when someone is training hard they can overcome a lot of dieting and nutritional deficiencies.

Just check out any forum that has a high population of guys spinning their wheels. A high percentage of them are obsessing about nutrition and have structured plans. But when it comes to training most of them don't have a progression plan, are using a lot of fluff exercises, and many of them are looking for ways to avoid the hardest exercises.

[Shadowschmadow]

Originally Posted by 5kgLifter

Diet, is a funny old thing, nobody can actually agree on what constitutes a good diet anyway... Many would consider white bread to be part of a lousy diet, many wouldn't...etc. HiCarb, LoCarb...

This is something I try to stress, and I don't believe that many people get it, or want to believe that its correct:

Through all the research I've done - every article, study, research review, etc. have all lead me to strongly believe in one thing; 99% of the shit you read about, and people worry about, doesn't really f*cking matter. Period. In my honest opinion, good nutrition is very simple.

If your focus is...

- Consuming an appropriate amount of calories to maintain a healthy bodyweight
- Ensuring the bulk of your food is unprocessed
- Consuming several servings of fruits and vegetables daily
- Taking in some amount of dairy products
- Consuming an adequate amount of protein
- Consuming an adequate amount of healthy fats (variety)
- Have a diverse diet! (fish, nuts, oils, beans, etc.)
(I'm sure I'm forgetting a few basics but you get the point)

... the little things in between aren't going to any meaningful value. You won't be able to take in excessive amounts of carbs (or anything like that) if this criteria is met. However it will leave room for the little joys in life.

If all that is followed; a little bag of Doritos, or ice cream at night, or a beer or whatever... None of it will mean shit as long as you live within those means. And none of those things can define a healthy or unhealthy diet under those conditions because their overall impact is so insignificant.

Yes, it really is that simple. And yes, I read/studied this crap for years - panicked over little details and all that - just to find out that almost everything I read wasn't really applicable or even meaningful.

[bigtim27]

I agree with Shadow on this. Little things may matter if you are in contest and already shredded but for the average person just looking to be healthier and either maintain or drop some weight you just have to stick to the basics calories in vs calories out.

[Shadowschmadow]

Originally Posted by bigtim27

I agree with Shadow on this. Little things may matter if you are in contest and already shredded but for the average person just looking to be healthier and either maintain or drop some weight you just have to stick to the basics calories in vs calories out.

I'm not necessarily talking about getting shredded, fat-loss, jakt or whatever. I'm just talking about general health and a healthy diet. You manipulate the whatever to achieve individual goals, but the principle remains the same.

[Trevor Ross]

Then you get Dave Tate saying this.

I asked Dave Tate what he thought about nutrition. He rolled his eyes at me and walked away. "Okay," I thought. Another guy heard my question and was a little more interested. He said he took in 8,000 calories per day and most of these came from liquid. He took in at least one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight (gee, I've never heard that before), used a lot of carb/protein shakes, and supplemented with healthy fats. He kept his fats at 30% of his diet.

I went back to Tate and he said, "Nutrition is overrated." He pointed to one of the other guys and said, "He's one of the strongest guys in the world and he eats grits. He eats maybe 600 calories per day." Hmmm, it would be interesting to have that metabolism. Stay anabolic by eating grits! Simmons added only this, "Cholesterol turns into Testosterone." I could only imagine what his diet is if that's his main rule of nutrition. Additionally, I'd like to see John Berardi's response to that statement. But hey, it obviously works for Simmons.

Here's a link to the article.

T NATION | Getting Schooled Westside Style

[tank]

Originally Posted by Trevor Ross

Then you get Dave Tate saying this.

I asked Dave Tate what he thought about nutrition. He rolled his eyes at me and walked away. "Okay," I thought. Another guy heard my question and was a little more interested. He said he took in 8,000 calories per day and most of these came from liquid. He took in at least one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight (gee, I've never heard that before), used a lot of carb/protein shakes, and supplemented with healthy fats. He kept his fats at 30% of his diet.

I went back to Tate and he said, "Nutrition is overrated." He pointed to one of the other guys and said, "He's one of the strongest guys in the world and he eats grits. He eats maybe 600 calories per day." Hmmm, it would be interesting to have that metabolism. Stay anabolic by eating grits! Simmons added only this, "Cholesterol turns into Testosterone." I could only imagine what his diet is if that's his main rule of nutrition. Additionally, I'd like to see John Berardi's response to that statement. But hey, it obviously works for Simmons.

Here's a link to the article.

T NATION | Getting Schooled Westside Style

that's disappointing to see dave say.

[Pull14]

One of the reasons Jim Wendler is among my favorite writers. His points are simple as are his explanations, but the value of his short articles... priceless. Cuts down BS like a chainsaw through butter.

Since moving to the training system I have, its been easy maintain weight and even lose some while eating not the healthiest of choices. Now to be fair, I select healthy over unhealthy, but I'm also not hesitant to crack open a few beers here and there or snack on some doritos. That said my training is hard mentally and physically, many days it take a lot of mental strength to push for those additional sets and when I dead tired add on 10-20 minutes of conditioning. Luckily training is something that I enjoy and among my top priorities in terms of hobbies. Its benefits, among other things, allows me to push through some tough stuff for 2 hours and live my day comfortably feed. No starving, no craving.

As Jim and you guys pointed out, training hard enough is the key in out training a less then 100% perfect diet. And as you guys pointed out, training hard encompasses a lot of things. Pain has to be pushed, but this is the mental pain of hard sets and physical pain brought on by fatigue; not the pain comes from jury - theres no point in doing something that will keep you out of the weight room.

Heavy weight has to be moved, pounds, reps, or sets added on a consistent basis. Perform lifts that effect the entire body, the ones you will sometimes loath doing because of difficulty. Sometype of conditioning should also be added. The specific conditioning doesn't matter or how hard you push it every session, just do something.

Nothing new in this post, but just throwing out my 2 cents because its something that I strongly believe in. Just like the nonsense that "you have to gain weight" to get decently strong, the assumption that diet is everything is a crock. Of course there is give and take to everything, but ends can still meet with a variety of variables.

[BendtheBar]

I admit I am a bit like Tate. I think nutrition is overrated in the sense that as long as a reasonable amount of protein and calories are taken in, and a sensible amount of healthier food, you really don't need to obsess about much.

Last year I ate like a complete fool and broke nearly every rule and destroyed PRs.

Don't read into this as me telling bodybuilders not to count macros, etc. I am merely saying that if you get your calories in and eat a reasonable amount of healthy food and protein then you're good to go. It's really not rocket surgery.

To Pull's point...you don't need to gain weight to get reasonably strong. Powerlifting records reveal this reality. I had a near 400 pound squat while weighing 190-ish in college. But I will add that I do get stronger much more quickly when I am gaining weight at a semi-rapid pace. This has never let me down.

[Disciple X]

I've been eating everything in site and breaking pr's left and right...

I've also been training like crazy, including squatting six days a week

[Traphouse86]

Originally Posted by Disciple X

I've been eating everything in site and breaking pr's left and right...

I've also been training like crazy, including squatting six days a week

Well said, we need the VOR in here