Westside, 5/3/1, and decisions

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by Off Road

I'm not sure why you guys would think 5/3/1 isn't enough volume or frequency? The overall volume and frequency is right on par with other great routines from Christy, McRobert, Iron Addict, and many more. And 5/3/1 is infinitely adjustable to the lifter's needs.

Well I think as it stands for the main lift it's not enough...meaning one all out working set. It certainly could be structured to add more volume on the main lift, being that it's flexible. I agree with you that it is adjustable enough to be useful.

My point is that I see a lot of guys doing the all out set for bench and squats, and that's it each week. Christy would have 2 to 5 hard sets for each lift per week, and generally an assistance lift to back it up. So for bench it was 2-5 sets, plus 2-5 hard sets on close grip. Deadlift was accompanied by bent leg deadlifts, and so on. So for many of the lifts it was twice a week with a greater volume of challenging sets, if that makes sense.

I simply believe there are too many guys misusing it. I guess I also believe that if your bench press is 180, using a 5x10 @ 90 pounds might not be the best route. That's if they are doing the BBB to begin with.

I think we're on the same sheet of paper, but I am probably not explaining myself good enough.

There are many guys that use it properly, and put a lot of thought into structure, but you also have a lot of early intermediates who I simply think could make faster gains on Christy. Christy has consistent progression, where as on 531 you have guys only doing one all out bench set, and only progressing once every month.

[Off Road]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

Well I think as it stands for the main lift it's not enough...meaning one all out working set. It certainly could be structured to add more volume on the main lift, being that it's flexible. I agree with you that it is adjustable enough to be useful.

Yes, I see your point about only doing one all-out set. I see it differently though, any set over 80% of your max for several reps is going to induce a training response. So really the lifter is getting in three good sets with those percentages. Training doesn't have to be to-failure to be productive.

Then you add the accessory lifts and assistance lifts, which should include some other form of pulling and direct quad work, and you have pretty good volume for the week. But I guess it's all in how you look at it...

[tank]

Originally Posted by Off Road

I'm not sure why you guys would think 5/3/1 isn't enough volume or frequency? The overall volume and frequency is right on par with other great routines from Christy, McRobert, Iron Addict, and many more. And 5/3/1 is infinitely adjustable to the lifter's needs.

Originally Posted by Shadow

I had pretty good success with Texas Method, FWIW. I preferred it over Mad Cow. TM is simple and effective; which personally is what I'm a big advocate of. Complicated routines often turn out poor results from my experiences.

what kind of program would you all suggest looking into for a lifter fresh out of linear progression?

Christy, McRobert, Iron Addict, and Texas Method? (i've never read into any of them)

[Off Road]

Putting mine and BtB's discussion aside, I like the looks of the Texas Method and it seems like the next logical progression.

[tank]

cool, i'll look into it. thanks bro.

[Shadowschmadow]

Texas method is a great program IMO. There are multiple variations of it, as you can see on Wiki, so make sure you look that over. I found 1 version to better suit me.

The great thing about TM is that you get that 5x5 volume. It will kick you ass when you get to heavy weights, but I think it was the key to my success this go around. And having the light WO after to recoup but stay loose was very helpful. Then the 3rd WO is all out and you can't beat that.

I think I modified variation 2... Can't remember, but that was the one I liked. I know I modified the volume and intensity of the press because that was a lift I wanted to work on. Either way, it worked out great until my hip decided it didn't love me anymore.

[mab54]

I have only been lifting serious for about a year and had great results with 5/3/1. It took my Deadlift from about 420 to around 500, my bench from 240 with a pause to around 270-280, didn't have as great an impact with squat but 300 to 345. That all in 2months, I was a lot more agressive with bench though and had a lot of singles, but I didn't go heavy at all with Deadlift.

[tank]

BUMP.

Just wanted to see if anyone had any Texas Method resources I haven't found to read. I want to reiterate that I'm still doing Madcow and probably will be for a long time, but I want to be thoroughly educated on the next program I embark upon, which I've gathered that Texas Method would be next in programming progression?

[Off Road]

Have you bought Ripptoe's book?

[tank]

which one? if there's a TM one, then I wasn't aware it existed, lol. I've read SS and own PP if those are what you mean.