Layne Norton at Raw United

[J_Byrd]

This was Raw United, not Raw Unity. It was posted on powerliftingwatch.com. Puts him at number 16 in the 220 class. Pretty impressive. He pulled 675 as well.

[BendtheBar]

Thanks JB I changed the thread title.

[J_Byrd]

His total put him 16th, the article didnt say what each lift placed him.

[xKyle10]

Originally Posted by Rich Knapp

BBers don't care about weight, tape messure things like that. Thats why the higher quality pro they are, the less you see them posted.
BBing is all about how you look. Thats why he don't post much in that area.

It's a shame that they don't care about it. I find it extremely interested in comparing natural potentials vs golden age of natural bodybuilding and the like. Having measurements & weights readily available at different bodyfat %'s for the top guys would make it A LOT easier to dispel misinformation about natural bodybuilding and would justify Casey's calculations even further. Then again, there are a good amount of top level guys who are honestly misinformed about natural limits and don't think they exist, given their structure & genetics...seems to be the younger guys that hold this view.

Would be cool to see people reacting to finding out that Jim Cordova only has about 16s or 16.5s and would bring more light to the sport and the rate at which its actually possible to achieve those results. Maybe the top guys are just focused on the illusion or are discouraged posting their measurements, I don't really understand the reasoning of it.

[BendtheBar]

Would be cool to see people reacting to finding out that Jim Cordova only has about 16s or 16.5s and would bring more light to the sport and the rate at which its actually possible to achieve those results.

I have quite a few conversations like this. Unfortunately they tend to end in a heated manner. But I do believe enough people are listening and educating themselves about natural expectations and goals. It's not about limits to me, but rather about building a proper perspective and quality goals.

Nearly every bodybuilder I talk to is obsessed with weight. They have goal weights for competitions, goal weights for the following year's competitions. Many of them weigh themselves daily and make adjustments off weight.

Many of them have an innate understanding for the gains curve though they are not aware of the data or Casey's work.

[xKyle10]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

I have quite a few conversations like this. Unfortunately they tend to end in a heated manner. But I do believe enough people are listening and educating themselves about natural expectations and goals. It's not about limits to me, but rather about building a proper perspective and quality goals.

Nearly every bodybuilder I talk to is obsessed with weight. They have goal weights for competitions, goal weights for the following year's competitions. Many of them weigh themselves daily and make adjustments off weight.

Many of them have an innate understanding for the gains curve though they are not aware of the data or Casey's work.

I'd imagine that's just something that lifetime natural competitors acquire over the years. Would only take a few offseasons in your mid 30s - 40s to realize that you have pretty much capped your limit, and that also explains why the champs are primarily that age. I also think there is a lot of misconception about retaining mass while prep as opposed to simply not peaking/filling out right. Those who drastically cut their carbs/cals far too low (via law of diminishing returns) or don't eat into/carb up into shows and only allow themselves a 12-14 week prep starting at say 12-14% BF are at a severe disadvantage to guys that know what they are doing and prep 16-20 weeks, starting fairly lean at 10-12% BF. Something also that is probably naturally acquired via age/experience if someone doesn't have a prep coach.

[kitarpyar]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

It's not about limits to me, but rather about building a proper perspective and quality goals.

I agree. Most people who cry "I won't limit myself" are not even close to the predicted limits. Amongst the rest, a large percentage have deluded measurements (eg. biceps measure taken with the arm at 45 degrees)

[xKyle10]

Of relevance, new vid of Layne hosted/filmed by the MD crew, gonna watch it now

Powerlifting with Layne Norton: Beauties & the Beasts

[xKyle10]

Also, asked Casey about Layne and his potential and he stated the following:

This question is for Casey....how much more strength can he gain/where about is he at muscular potential wise? At the IFPA Pro International (following his mid 2006->Early 2010 offseason & pro debut), he weighed 196.7 lbs, just 5 lbs more than when he one his pro card. Obviously, his lifts increased A LOT, but I was going through his log recently (Layne Norton Reloaded: Back on my feet, like a freight train I'm coming! - Bodybuilding.com Forums) and there was not all that much mass added. Some back thickness, "muscle maturity", etc. but most of the added LBM went straight to his legs, mostly quads and a bit of hammies. He has noted that his calves are genetically his worst bodypart so I doubt he will ever reach his potential on those. I know we talked about his potential in that thread about a year back, but what do you reckon his current status? Do you think he will be able to get to 198-199 or even break 200 at a contest?

Originally Posted by Casey Butt

Statistically speaking, Layne should max out at a maximum of about 197-198 lbs at 4% body fat, and at 196.7 in sharp condition he was already just about there ...requiring four years to gain those five pounds (assuming similar conditions at both contests). He might continue to get stronger and perhaps a little bigger in his weak areas, but anyway you look at it he's knocking at the ceiling. His biggest obstacles now will gradually become time, age and accumulated injuries.

He never ceases to amaze me with his drive and motivation though ...never seems to quit or get knocked off course for long.