Another take on deadlift

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by Off Road

I'm going to remember that! Kind of like a test, if you want my help then you must do this.

Exactly.

On the other hand, if they respond...can I just skip this and do more abs...

Anyway, sorry to derail the thread.

[Off Road]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

Anyway, sorry to derail the thread.

Not at all...great stuff.

[Squatter]

I only started deadlifting a little over a year ago. I started 531 at about the same time, so it was nice to have my progression already figured out on paper for me. I followed it to the letter and the rest is history. I basically went from nothing to 455 in 9 months on 531, all the while tweaking my form with vid critiques.

I reckon my point is is that perhaps a newb to deadlifting should follow a structured routine like 531 if not for his/her whole program, maybe just the deadlifts.

[MikeM]

Mr. Miyagi! Sick pull! He's the man. Good luck for the rest of us!

As for pulling only with 5-3-1, that's great if you have your form down. If you don't, 5-3-1 will kill your back as it encourages too much too fast, unless you are uber pessimistic in your initial programming.

Just saying, I think less is more with your back. For what that's worth from me and my pitiful deadlift.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by Squatter

I only started deadlifting a little over a year ago. I started 531 at about the same time, so it was nice to have my progression already figured out on paper for me. I followed it to the letter and the rest is history. I basically went from nothing to 455 in 9 months on 531, all the while tweaking my form with vid critiques.

I reckon my point is is that perhaps a newb to deadlifting should follow a structured routine like 531 if not for his/her whole program, maybe just the deadlifts.

I think that's an important point Squatter. Progression is often not understood by many. I find that everyday in answering novice questions. It's just RARELY part of a workout. 99% of workouts are "3 sexts by X reps".

Having a structure teaches while also challenging.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by MikeM

Mr. Miyagi! Sick pull! He's the man. Good luck for the rest of us!

As for pulling only with 5-3-1, that's great if you have your form down. If you don't, 5-3-1 will kill your back as it encourages too much too fast, unless you are uber pessimistic in your initial programming.

Just saying, I think less is more with your back. For what that's worth from me and my pitiful deadlift.

Another good point. Rapid progression with poor form is a train wreck.

[Off Road]

I don't see 5/3/1 as a fast progression scheme, in fact I think it is quite the opposite. At its core is is slow yearly progressions.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by Off Road

I don't see 5/3/1 as a fast progression scheme, in fact I think it is quite the opposite. At its core is is slow yearly progressions.

I might have stepped in over my head with my last statement. I've never used Wendler's and am not even sure what the progression rate is. My statement was meant to be more general, as in very rapid progression with poor form.

If we're talking expectations, once I get a trainee on board with form, I expect them to squat 275-315 (1RM) during their first year. That is, the first year once they get past the initial 2-4 months of slow progression and working on form.

I am merely for very slow progression while a trainee grows accustomed to a lift, gets their stabilizers in check, and gets major form flaws worked out. After that I want to see them push each week.

After this one year of solid gains point, I personally am for a more methodical rate of progression. Perhaps Wendlers fit this bill. Things change after beginner gains. The game becomes different as a trainee enters "Stage 2" of their journey.

Unfortunately, few lifters eat and train properly during this first year, so my expectations might seem like too much. I don't believe they are.

A methodical approach makes sense at this time for recreational lifters who are not in it (yet) for max strength. But I'm sure we can all agree, each intermediate lifter is different so programming can be a little more tricky at this point. Some are naturally strong and can deadlift 500 in their first 2 years without batting an eye.

[Off Road]

You are exactly right BtB, of course you know your stuff.

Wendler's 5/3/1 is really not for beginners because the progression is painfully slow. It really is meant more for guys that have used up their linear gains and need to focus on long periods of progression. If you look at the deadlift, you'd start with 90% of your 1RM and use that new number for your training max. For a 400 lb deadlifter, it will take about 4 months to get back to 100% of your actual max for your training max, and you are still only using a percentage of it for training purposes.

[Fazc]

Also we have to consider Wendlers motivation for this programme, this came from a prior history of very high volume, high intensity training with an emphasis on rotating exercises, weak point training and equipped lifting.

A switch to a more moderate lifting schedule which focuses on the lifts, no real exercise rotation, just varying the sets/reps which is by far the best approach to the raw lifts. This allowed him to spend time on conditioning and as you can see by his recent pictures he looks in much better shape.

That's something to bear in mind when you pick your own routine as well. What stage of lifting are you in? What are your goals? What is your training history, both within the last few months and the last few years. This is all going to effect whether 5/3/1 is for you. For any young guys reading who are looking to get as strong as possible I don't think such a moderate routine is the most efficient way, Wendler, OffRoad, BtB and most guys who prosper on such relatively low frequency are by far and away in a different position lifting-wise to the beginner looking to build a strong foundation. For those beginners looking to get strong a more traditional approach would work better.