Coaching Minimum Proficiency Level

[TitanCT]

Originally Posted by Rich Knapp

1. You know who he is to brouse for a pics.
2. Have you see updated pics how he looks in gym gear? In his gym sweets when he's not posing for a pic, he looks like a burned out "Cheech & Chon" fan. lol

saw him in person at the arnold. hes not huge, but hes not in terrible shape..he still has arms and delts...then again he's an oldman. regardless, he's an icon and always will be. id love to train an hour with glass.

[Carl1174]

I think a strength coach/trainer should definitely have some idea of the stresses lifting 400/500 lbs puts on you, but I also think that a coach/trainer doesnt necessarily have to be fantastic at doing what they are teaching. They just need to know how to get YOU fantastic at doing it. I mean Tiger Woods has a coach, and I bet my house that he/she has never been and will never be anywhere near as good at golf as he is. Same with most major sports stars.

I definitely think they must have some experience of what they are teaching for sure (whether that is very heavy weight, or bb'ing to a certain level), but i dont think they need ever have been 'elite' at it themselves, as long as they can make you elite, isnt that the main thing ?

Carl.

[therealmarcogalindo]

For me i would not hire a trainer to train me if i were at a higher then the trainer has ever been at, to me it doesnt make much sense.
But thats just me..

[LtL]

Originally Posted by Carl1174

I definitely think they must have some experience of what they are teaching for sure (whether that is very heavy weight, or bb'ing to a certain level), but i dont think they need ever have been 'elite' at it themselves, as long as they can make you elite, isnt that the main thing ?

Carl.

My response to that is:

How do they know what it takes to get someone to elite if they haven't done it themselves?

Now that's not saying that it can't be done. I am keen to hear everyone's thoughts as to how that could be done.

LtL

[glwanabe]

This is a great topic Steve. I didn't have time to get into it yesterday. It is a very complicated question to answer if you really think about it.

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

Today I told a story about a strength coach I crossed paths with that had a max 300 squat and 350 deadlift.

Q1: Strength/Powerlifting Coach

I posed the question...Do you believe there is there a minimum proficiency levels for a strength coach to have so that he personally understands the demands of heavy weight?

The coach in question trains powerlifting and to a lesser degree Olympic lifts. But he isn't really the issue.

To make myself clear, this thread is not about believing that someone has to squat or deadlift X amount before they can give advice.

A powerlifting coach is tasked with training men and women who are lifting an ever-increasing body-taxing amount of weight. A 400 squat is much more demanding than a 300 pound squat, and a 600 pound squat is much more demanding than a 400 pound squat.

Do you believe that a strength coach who has never experienced a squat over 300 pounds can grasp and personally train a lifter to handle the demands of a 500+ pound squat? I am not saying he can or can't...just throwing the topic out there.

Yes, they need a minimum level of proficiency. However, even that statement can lead to a misunderstanding.


There are two aspects to look at. The technical knowledge of lifting, and how to perform a lift correctly, and the actual performance of the lift.

Most people can learn the technical side of what is required to perform a lift correctly.

The aspect of performance can be looked at from multiple angles itself, and this subject is talked about a lot.

I've though about this a lot over the last day, and I've not reached a definitive answer. Yes, a person could possibly coach somebody who is lifting more than them, but the case can also strongly be made that advanced trainers, should be utilized for advanced athletes. Specialty coaches, and trainers are used in many sports.

The case can also be made that no two people are the same. If my 1 rep max is 300, while somebody else has a 500 1 rep max, are we both not performing at our max potential regardless of how much weight we are lifting?

If we are both performing at our max then is our experience really all that different? For this example let's assume that both lifters are the same age, and height, but they differ in the body somotype.

If both lifters started out together, and have progressed to the 300lb point, the experience of lifting that weight will be far different for the two of them. The ecto is at 100% of his body's ability to perform, while the meso, is still working hard, he will continue to move beyond that 300lb point.

The experience of what performing at 100% of your bodys ability feels like will not be experienced by the meso until he is lifting more weight. Could the ecto, not then coach him, and guide him as to what to expect as he approaches his limit?

Q2: Muscle Building Coach/Trainer

If a muscle building/bodybuilding coach has never risen above the level of beginner gains (minimum proficiency) do you believe they have what it takes to train others?

Again, the core of this issue is...this coach has never personally had to train under an extremely difficult set of demands. Without this personal insight, do they have enough experience to coach?

This aspect is even more of an issue.

Natural vrs drugged lifting methods, splits vrs fullbody, ect.

A bodybuilder has always used a 5 day split. He never changed what he has done, except add weight, and continue to grow. He is very knowledgeable in his program, but has not learned outside of that about the various other programs that can be used.

He is a big person who has accomplished goals well beyond beginner gains. If you based your opinion of his knowledge purely on his size then you would be doing yourself a huge disservice. Would this be the right person based simply on his size to talk about natural fullbody training, or even an upper lower split? No, he would not. He has no experience in those area's of training, but he sure looks the part.

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Can a generally knowledgeable person coach people beyond his own experience level? I think they can, but it would be better to to seek out an advanced trainer, if you are an advanced athlete.

Are all advanced trainers, and coaches the right person? No, it depends on what exact skills they are appropriate to train somebody on. You're not going to seek out a squat specialist if you're wanting to improve your bench.


There is a lot more to this, but I've got to run for now.

[Rich Knapp]

Originally Posted by TitanCT

saw him in person at the arnold. hes not huge, but hes not in terrible shape..he still has arms and delts...then again he's an oldman. regardless, he's an icon and always will be. id love to train an hour with glass.

I would also. I use some of his lifting form techniques in my workouts.

[Carl1174]

Originally Posted by LtL

My response to that is:

How do they know what it takes to get someone to elite if they haven't done it themselves?

Now that's not saying that it can't be done. I am keen to hear everyone's thoughts as to how that could be done.

LtL

Fair comment, but Is Roger Federers coach/trainer better at tennis, or played at a higher level than Roger federer ?

Whats about Lionel Messi's coach ?

Muhammed Ali's trainer ?

Pyrros Dimas' Coach

Tiger Woods' Coach ?

etc etc...

Obviously we are talking here of your average Joe getting coaching from someone, where i think that most people wouldnt, or shouldnt, go to some overweight/weak 'trainer' to get them in to shape, or to teach them how to get strong, but Just because someone isnt 'elite' themselves, doesnt mean they cant get someone else 'elite'. I dont know how they do it (perhaps thats why Im not a coach), but they do. I think there is more to being a good coach/trainer then just being good at what you are trying to coach. im not saying people who are rubbish at something should coach it, or that are comparitively weak should teach how to get strong, but just because they cant lift 600lbs, doesnt mean they couldnt get you lifting 600lbs...

Carl.

[glwanabe]

Charles Glass as a bodybuilding coach.

The man has said that fullbody training is a gimmick.

This has been posted and talked about on many forums, including this one. This is an example of a supposed advanced level trainer, who is discrediting a known proven way to train for natural lifters.

[Rich Knapp]

Originally Posted by TitanCT

saw him in person at the arnold. hes not huge, but hes not in terrible shape..he still has arms and delts...then again he's an oldman. regardless, he's an icon and always will be. id love to train an hour with glass.

I think the long and short of it is: To many "Book smart - Real World ideats getting certifications" as P/T ers.

50% of the time those that can't do them selves - Train. lol

So do your research on the person your considering as a trainer.

The certificate don't make the trainer quality, the trainers quality makes the certificate.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by Carl1174

Fair comment, but Is Roger Federers coach/trainer better at tennis, or played at a higher level than Roger federer ?

Whats about Lionel Messi's coach ?

Muhammed Ali's trainer ?

Pyrros Dimas' Coach

Tiger Woods' Coach ?

etc etc...

Better than Federer...or do the folks on this list at least have a minimal level of proficiency in the sport they are coaching? Because that was the question. We are not asking these coaches to be advanced...but we are asking if they have a MINIMAL level or proficiency. I believe the coaches you referenced all do. I believe our strength coach in question does NOT.

A minimal level to me is that of an intermediate to advanced intermediate for the given sport.

The coach that started this discussion had a 300 squat...achievable by most beginners after a year to 18 months. Nothing exceptional whatsoever about a 300 squat. Most everyone can do it (Not down playing the achievement, mind you).

Does anyone believe that the above coaches that trained those athletes have skill levels that are on par with AVERAGE individuals who have only trained 12 to 18 months in that sport?

I don't.

I am sure that Tiger Wood's golf coach can play far better than an average golfer with 12 to 18 months experience. I am sure that Federer's coach can play better tennis than that of a 12 to 18 month dedicated (but average) tennis player. ..and so on...

Yet we have a powerlifting/strength coach who was unable to squat more than 300 pounds after a decade of squatting?