242 raw elite total: 1607 or 1857 ?

[IronManlet]

Makes sense. I would have thought more 242'ers would be at least 5'10"...that's pretty hefty for 5'7". haha

Anyway, sorry for derailing the subject.

[TheRock]

Originally Posted by Isaku900

This is generally because most of the *great* 242ers are like 5'7-5'8" 242.

As you optimize your leverages (gain weight to powerlifting proportionate height) they start to favor your squat/bench more than your deadlift.

Louie Simmons is famous for saying gain weight until your deadlift starts going down, then drop to the weight class below that, that's your "ideal" weight class.

Plus, raw or geared you can build a better total with two good lifts, rather than one good lift.

You are correct sir. I guess it's easier to be a full power guy with more consistent numbers across the board at 220 or even 198? Just judging from some of the guys out there like Celli, Ricks, Haggett, Belyaev. It just seems like 242 is a weird class because as you stated most of the guys are very firepluggy and the taller guys end up at 275 or so.

[Isaku900]

Originally Posted by IronManlet

Makes sense. I would have thought more 242'ers would be at least 5'10"...that's pretty hefty for 5'7". haha

Anyway, sorry for derailing the subject.

5'10 is probably the maximum for a successful 242, and most of them should be 275ers, or cutting from the low 260s.

Originally Posted by TheRock

You are correct sir. I guess it's easier to be a full power guy with more consistent numbers across the board at 220 or even 198? Just judging from some of the guys out there like Celli, Ricks, Haggett, Belyaev. It just seems like 242 is a weird class because as you stated most of the guys are very firepluggy and the taller guys end up at 275 or so.

ed coan was a 242, probably the best ever.



kirk karwoski was a 275er, and is 5'8", maaaaybe 5'9".

Celli is like 5'6"ish

[Bodybygamma]

Originally Posted by IronManlet

There seem to be a lot of Bench + Squat powerlifters, period. I've only seen a few videos of Deadlift specialists, and they were mostly in the SHW classes or very close to that.

I wouldn't call someone whose best lift is the deadlift a deadlift specialist unless they pulled only. Most of the SHW deadlifts with over 900lb pulls all do full meets, Vlad Alhazov, Benni Magnusson, Andy Bolton, Konstantin Konstantinovs (275-308), So I am not really sure who your are referring to as a "Deadlift specialist" You make it sound like a bench specialist like Scott Mendelson, or Ryan Knelly or any of those guys who do BENCH ONLY, which is why there are called specialists.

Big deadlifts in power-lifting are making a comeback, at least raw, so I wouldn't really say that there are a lot of bench + squat powerlifters period, that only really applies to geared powerlifters because and I say this IDEALLY a geared lifter will get 200-300lbs for his Squat, 200-300lbs for his Bench, possibly more but at most 100lbs for his deadlift, and its most likely if its a briefed + suited, erector shirt pull which might not even be legal. On average its 25-50lbs from what I have observed.

@Iron Manlet, I know your young and new to a lot of this but you have to watch how you refer or phrase things, because in the wrong forums, trolls & wise posters alike will rip what you post apart if you can't get the facts dead on. I'm not calling you out or trying to punk you right now, just trying to inform you since I am also a fairly young lifter and you won't get any respect by older much more experienced lifters if you just make general conclusions and assumptions, and just give you the heads up so you can avoid trolls in the future.

[IronManlet]

Not really a Deadlift specialist, I guess. Wrong terminology.

You're right about the rest of course. Sorry if I came off wrong.

[BendtheBar]

The 100% Raw standards are way too low. I agree with Eric Talmant's reasoning. At 242, the 1607 total required by 100% Raw is nowhere near what I would consider elite.

1607. 1857 for a TRUE natural is an insane total.

500 Bench
600 Squat
700 Deadlift

Then add 57 more pounds....Raw, natty? Maybe one a decade. If that. They would be an utter freak.

As a raw, natty lifter who is right at the cusp of getting 1500 myself, I could possibly see hitting 1600, but 1700 for me is a fantasy. I certainly could see a total slightly higher than 1607, but not much higher. I respect Tony, but think 1700 is too high for a true natty.

I guess it's all in definitions. If you want 3-4 a year reaching elite then 1607. If you want 1-2 every 50 years then 1857. Again, talking TRUE natties, not de facto natties who become nattie because of poor drug testing. or lack of drug testing.

Originally Posted by Bodybygamma

Elite should be hard to obtain, about the 1% category, factoring the aspects of RAW. 242LBS. DRUG TESTED. IN A SANCTIONED COMPETITION.

I have personally talked to 100% Raw's Paul Bossi and as is there are very few Elite lifters. Only a handful in 100% Raw that reach Elite. We talked about Elite standards and I think they are set appropriately. Small adjustments may be needed but nothing dramatic.

I have also talked to him about drug testing. I know and trust that Bossi gets the job done when testing. He doesn't "token" drug test.

Originally Posted by IronManlet

When there have been lifters putting 300lb sandbags over their heads one-handed, doing 600lb Squats into their 60's, Deadlifting 700lbs one-handed, and generally ****ing shit up all over the place without gear, it seems like people should be aiming a little higher. Maybe even a lot higher.

No disrespect meant, but this is a bit of fantasy land stuff. A 600 natty raw squat is certainly not unheard of, but in the 60's maybe one guy has done it. Grimek was doing 500 for reps. Not sure if he hit 600.

You have to be careful with this stuff IM. It's simply not realistic for natties unless they are extreme genetic freaks, as in one a century.

[Isaku900]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

No disrespect meant, but this is a bit of fantasy land stuff. A 600 natty raw squat is certainly not unheard of, but in the 60's maybe one guy has done it. Grimek was doing 500 for reps. Not sure if he hit 600.

You have to be careful with this stuff IM. It's simply not realistic for natties unless they are extreme genetic freaks, as in one a century.

I know two younger lifters who have 600lb raw squats, and one guy at my gym is getting damn close. all are natty, and they all have relatively poor deadlifts.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by Isaku900

I know two younger lifters who have 600lb raw squats, and one guy at my gym is getting damn close. all are natty, and they all have relatively poor deadlifts.

As I mentioned, a 600 squat is not unheard of. I know many raw, real naturals have hit it.

I was referring to having a 600 pound squat at the age of 60.

This idea that there are 60 years olds running around squatting 600, or lifters one arm deadlifting 700 isn't a realistic expectation for any natural...even the freakiest natural freaks of freakdom.

[Isaku900]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

As I mentioned, a 600 squat is not unheard of. I know many raw, real naturals have hit it.

I was referring to having a 600 pound squat at the age of 60.

ah

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by Isaku900

ah

I just wanted to make sure IM understood that the numbers he was tossing around had little real world carry over with regards to realistic expectations and standards.

The best age 60+ raw natural squats I've seen in the records books were under 540 pounds. Most 500-520. I've not personally seen any age 60+ record near 600, though I am not discounting the possibility that one exists. I checked the USAPL and 100% Raw records and didn't see a natural anywhere near 600.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.