Squat-ATG VS PARALLEL

[bamazav]

It has been said more than once, but no one has really focused on it. The key is good form. Bad form to parallel and bad form ATG will bring about injury. To be quite honest, most folks do not truly go ATG. If you video them you find they may go past parallel, but their hams and glutes are still so tight they can not get all the way down. I seek to go past parallel but like Carl said, "I don't train with a particular range of motion." I seek to train with good form and control.

When I was starting I would set my safety bars on the very bottom and then sit a broom stick on them. The broom stick was about 15" off the floor. When my butt hit the stick, I pushed back up. For us tall guys, 15" from the floor is a long way down.

[BigTallOx]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

I will also say that stopping high is uber bad, from what I understand. I would wager that many squat injuries come from overtraining 1/4 and 1/2 squats.

Hmm, I wonder if that's different if you sit on a box and lift your feet off the floor while you're on the box. That's how my pro strongman training buddy does heavy squats. I should add though, he does squat below parallel when warming up, but it's only high box squats when the weight gets heavy.

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

I think a squat should feel somewhat natural. Many times young trainees land-lock themselves by overthinking a squat and turn it into this mechanically clunky and dangerous lift. When you can squat and have it feel natural, and when you have reached at least a 185 pound squat for reps, I would say you can start to play around with lower than parallel depths.

I agree with that, but would say "you can start to play around with lower than parallel depths if you feel so inclined". I don't think going ATG is by any means necessary to build size and strength. By some of the attitudes I've seen it does seem that going ATG is some sort of a cult.

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

I have great knees, and an amazingly strong lower back from squatting.

I do too ( thank goodness).

[BigTallOx]

Originally Posted by bamazav

For us tall guys, 15" from the floor is a long way down.

No kidding. I bet I'm below parallel with my butt 20" off the ground.

[bamazav]

Originally Posted by BigTallOx

No kidding. I bet I'm below parallel with my butt 20" off the ground.

I am sure. With you at 6'8" you can probably stop at Coop's waist and be past ||.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by BigTallOx

Hmm, I wonder if that's different if you sit on a box and lift your feet off the floor while you're on the box. That's how my pro strongman training buddy does heavy squats. I should add though, he does squat below parallel when warming up, but it's only high box squats when the weight gets heavy.

I was thinking more "bro squats", like the 1/4 squat high school football team squat. I was thinking the injuries come from that nonsense.

I do high box squats myself from time to time and never feel any knee issues. But like your buddy when I have done them it was after deeper warmups or working sets.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by BigTallOx

I don't think going ATG is by any means necessary to build size and strength. By some of the attitudes I've seen it does seem that going ATG is some sort of a cult.

I don't either Ox. I don't think they are necessary, and I have never purposely performed them other than one or two warmup sets where I allow myself to sink deep into the hole with a moderately light weight. But like I said my body type sucks so my "below parallel" are almost ATG anyway.

But with that said, I do see some heavy squatters with less than massive legs and often wonder if ATGs might help them? I don't know, but I wonder.

I respect the guys that want to do them but:

A) I can't really go any deeper anyway without killing my lower back.

B) I don't know enough about ATG squats to really care about them.

I go an inch or so below parallel, always have and probably always will. I know some guys can naturally go crazy deep. If they can do it and it feels good, rock it like Dokken.

[CoopDawg]

want to thank everyone for their replies

[Carl1174]

Originally Posted by BigTallOx

Yeah, immediately calling people who disagree with you misinformed seems to be a common tactic of cults too, no thank you.

That was part of a quote Ox that I posted up it wasnt aimed at you or intended to offend, i think you took it a bit out of context. i even said in my initial post that people try to go ATG to just look badass. I am more interested in a full ROM for the individual rather than having to go ATG all the time. i think a full ROM on ANY exercise is better than a pertial one. i know partial reps can be used as a technique but personally i wouldnt recommend them as standeard practice no matter what the exercise, be it Benchpress, BB curls or squats - whatever. like i said mate, that part of the quote which you picked out was not calling you or anyone else out for your opinion it was just part of a longer explanation. Sorry if it did cause offense

Originally Posted by bamazav

It has been said more than once, but no one has really focused on it. The key is good form. Bad form to parallel and bad form ATG will bring about injury. To be quite honest, most folks do not truly go ATG. If you video them you find they may go past parallel, but their hams and glutes are still so tight they can not get all the way down. I seek to go past parallel but like Carl said, "I don't train with a particular range of motion." I seek to train with good form and control.

This everday of the week and twice on sundays....

Originally Posted by BigTallOx

No kidding. I bet I'm below parallel with my butt 20" off the ground.

My butt isnt far of 20" from the floor when i am stood up

I am the same make up as Steve that my calves and hammie touch about a couple of inches below parallel, any further and i am literally pushing myself down which i dont recommend. Like I said i think the key is a full ROM for you, whether that be Parallel, past parralel or ATG. I dont agree particularly with 1/4 squats as a constant (it you want to do them for a specific reason then OK), but for me all exercises should be in a full ROM to be most effective. just my 2p worth

Carl.

[IronManlet]

Having trained with ATG squats, squats just breaking parallel, parallel squats, and partial squats, my opinion is that parallel squats are much the same as ATG ones in terms of muscle recruitment. Personally, I have never felt my hamstrings hurt more than when I started doing heavy partials; something that seems to be the opposite of what you'd expect.

[Bodybygamma]

This has nothing to do with this thread, but I just felt like ranting. The problem is too many people don't actually compete, so you have all these professional a-hole critics always bashing someone else's style of lifting. What bamazav said is right on. Its all about form and purpose.

No matter what you do you should strive for perfect form. Now from varies based on a persons body type and accommodating leverages and can only be perfected with in the 80+% to be truly of use. Good technique is one that holds through for what ever your purposes are. If your a body builder and do cheat curls but control the top contraction and that is your purpose then your ok. If your not contracting then your not building any muscle your conditioning its fast twitch fibers with speed work.

The bro science goes something like this on the rate from slow to fast: bodybuilding(slow-controlled movements), powerlifting(medium-fast movements), olympic lifting(fast as possible).

Both powerlifting and olympic lifting focus more on acceleration, but being bulky and having static strength still will help in powerlifting, as olympic lifting it is a hinderance.For bodybuilding your focusing on the shape and size of the muscle so everything is primarily contraction work. If you a gym rat then you do what fits your goals.

Same principles with atg squats, wide squats, narrow squats, high bar, low bar, its all variations relative to ones goals. So set your goals first then pick what is most appropriate to them.

Fact of the matter is, anything done right will work, everything done wrong won't.