Chaos pain ??

[glwanabe]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

I just read that post and missed his weight. Sleep reading, I am...



I don't know his height though.

If I remember correctly, he is 5'6"

Ripped at that height and weighing what he does. Do the math.

[Trevor Lane]

Originally Posted by glwanabe

How the hell do you gain 10lbs while leaning out? I know the answer I want to say, but I will leave it at that.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for hard work, and having a kickazz attitude. However I'm also about being honest with your audience. There are a lot of young lifters who seem enamored with C/P, and if he is using the supps I believe he is, then he is not being honest with his audience.

You can train naturally, you can train using the supps of your choice, I don't care one way or the other. What I do care about, is being honest about what your doing. Especially if your pushing said program to the uninformed.

I've never read/heard Jamie confirm or deny gear use, nor have I ever heard him say that noobs/the uninformed should train the way he does. In fact he makes it pretty clear noobs have to keep their training volume low until they are ready to take on the kind of volume he speaks of.

[Grim83]

Originally Posted by glwanabe

If I remember correctly, he is 5'6"

Ripped at that height and weighing what he does. Do the math.

i understand your point gl, but lets drop the gear aspect, i do believe his methods are valid for the natural, and so what if jamie is on the darkside now, he is still one very smart man, and his program is valuable. its not like he is one of these pro bodybuilders who are so juiced they have lost any perception of how a natural can/should train period, like i said jamie is highly intelligent, and regardless of his current status he does know what he is talking about, same as quite a few guys on here who use/ have used but still know what its like for the natural trainee.

[buZZkiLL]

Determining Natural Bodybuilding Potential

According to the natural body potential, at 5'6 and 6% body fat a bodybuilder could get to 177 pounds. I remember BTB saying that was large bones and good genetics.

I'm not trying to start a **** storm. My only concern was that I would be doing the same **** I did with bodybuilding and following a program of a steroid users. I don't care if he uses or not I just don't want to follow a program of someone "using" and expect the same results.

[Grim83]

Originally Posted by Trevor Lane

I've never read/heard Jamie confirm or deny gear use, nor have I ever heard him say that noobs/the uninformed should train the way he does. In fact he makes it pretty clear noobs have to keep their training volume low until they are ready to take on the kind of volume he speaks of.

he did during the interview in a roundabout way, when he talked about winning the powerlifting meet a few years back.

[Grim83]

Originally Posted by buZZkiLL

Determining Natural Bodybuilding Potential

According to the natural body potential, at 5'6 and 6% body fat a bodybuilder could get to 177 pounds. I remember BTB saying that was large bones and good genetics.

I'm not trying to start a **** storm. My only concern was that I would be doing the same **** I did with bodybuilding and following a program of a steroid users. I don't care if he uses or not I just don't want to follow a program of someone "using" and expect the same results.

ok, then from my own personal standpoint i would say to use his template if you want, its a workable method, and im actually thinking of using it starting next week.

[BendtheBar]

The core issue here is recovery time. No matter where you are at, you never jump into a crazy volume and/or intensity routine. Lifting is lift going up the stairs...you take it one step at a time.

Start small, add on, learn your body and its limits.

Steroid users have a recovery advantage. If you believe someone is on steroids, then drop the volume and frequency. It's the same with pro bodybuilders...5 to 6 days a week isn't optimal for naturals looking to maximize mass. And many guys can't train hard 5 to 6 a week and gain strength.

But some can.

The ones that can didn't just jump into the deep end of the pool though.

I can train 5 days a week, but not with crazy volume. I don't know if this is maximal for my strength gains, but I can - and often enjoy - doing it. I can't train legs heavy more then once a week at my age. I might have been able to at a younger age.

[Grim83]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

The core issue here is recovery time. No matter where you are at, you never jump into a crazy volume and/or intensity routine. Lifting is lift going up the stairs...you take it one step at a time.

Start small, add on, learn your body and its limits.

Steroid users have a recovery advantage. If you believe someone is on steroids, then drop the volume and frequency. It's the same with pro bodybuilders...5 to 6 days a week isn't optimal for naturals looking to maximize mass. And many guys can't train hard 5 to 6 a week and gain strength.

But some can.

The ones that can didn't just jump into the deep end of the pool though.

I can train 5 days a week, but not with crazy volume. I don't know if this is maximal for my strength gains, but I can - and often enjoy - doing it. I can't train legs heavy more then once a week at my age. I might have been able to at a younger age.

this is valid, currently im planning to start next week using the hepburn method we talked about, M/W/F and then on tuesday thursday and maybe saturday i will be using a conditioning styled workout like complexes and the bear, personally i dont see a problem with this, as it allows me to go in 5-6x a week but the the conditioning days are light and should allow me to recover without much hassle

[Grim83]

just talked to jamie about his using and he said hes still clean, oh and that he had added some fat when he got to 200, so he wasn't his normally shredded self

[kman025]

not going to argue whether he's clean or not, however he said in a blog post- he was once randomly chosen for drug testing after a PL meet and he passed.

anyway, OP- where are your lifts at? how long have you been lifting? what routine have you been doing?

(sorry if you already answered these)