Squat - hips back before squatting

[70sBB]

Originally Posted by 5kgLifter

"you retract your scapula by lifting your elbows" this is the normally taught stuff, however, you do not need to lift the elbows in order to be able to retract the scapula.

That makes sense.

[SeventySeven]

I am confused, I break the knee first, but if you dont break at the knee or hip where to to start?

[5kgLifter]

Originally Posted by SeventySeven

I am confused, I break the knee first, but if you dont break at the knee or hip where to to start?

I think it's way overthought; I've read that some break at the hip first, others the knee but really there isn't much of a time lag between one body part intitiating the move and the next starting to move, IMO.

I've watched vids where people seem to move their head, albeit slightly, prior to every squat they perform even when doing reps...but, it just seems to be a trigger for them which starts the whole chain of events off, something they tap in to just to get the squat moving.

[J_Byrd]

Originally Posted by Bodybygamma

I dissagree because there is something wrong with someone deadlifting the bar off your chest when you bench giving you a bro spot and then you claiming its your lift in the strength world so what is gear?

If I squatted 3000lbs with a fork lift in back of my but I made contact with the bar shouldn't I get credit? That is not the same thing ok so what if I had specially made briefs with hi-jack support on the side and 7meter magic wraps with elephant lined with elephant tendons on and a 5play canvas suit I need to placed around my body and be stiched in the cast... When does it end.

GEAR = EGO. You can buy good gear, break it in, work the shit out of it and get results. You can't find any short cuts for RAW strength. Not even juice, because there are plenty of weak bodybuilders and gym rats out there.

And this is why I disagree with this statement. Gear is worse then doping is in the sport IMO.

Having done both, I just disagree. Raw lifting is easy for me. Before the peck injury I could have dumped the gear and hit 1850 on just 2nd attempts. The hardest part of raw lifting is staying healthy (this is why I have a peck tear right now!)

I go to NYC normally once a year, more than happy to throw you in a bench shirt and see how muich more it magically does for you

Now that we have talked about it, want to end the gear debate? We just will not agree on this one.
disclaimer: I am talking about wearing knee wraps, anything else is just nuts lol

[Bodybygamma]

My main point is after you spent all that time in gear making those numbers, as soon as you take it off how much functional strength have you gained. My squats help my yoke walks,my overheap pressing, my carries and my deadlifts help my farmers walks, my stone lifts, my cleans. Some of the strongest worlds strongest men competitiors were powerlifters Bill Kazmaier, Don Reinhoudt, Magnus ver magnusson, jon pall sigmarsson,O.D. wilson,Jón Páll Sigmarsson,Mikhail Koklyaev, Bendict Magnusson There strength wasn't limited to just 3 lifts. These guys in gear can't compete in certain feds in powerlifting, multiply guys can't do ipf and do good single ply then go in the raw feds and be all around champs let alone go into other sports.

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Originally Posted by J_Byrd

Having done both, I just disagree. Raw lifting is easy for me. Before the peck injury I could have dumped the gear and hit 1900 on just 2nd attempts. The hardest part of raw lifting is staying healthy (this is why I have a peck tear right now!)

I go to NYC normally once a year, more than happy to throw you in a bench shirt and see how muich more it magically does for you

disclaimer: I am talking about wearing knee wraps, anything else is just nuts lol

I train with guys who use gear, and have tried it, I have no interest learning a shirt as they are retarded.I am not saying its easy or not painful (the bites)but its still just a partial movement using the shirt as leverage. Using a shirt or any gear is no difference then reverse bands or doing partials with a spotter.

The sling shot alone adds 50lbs to my bench and with a crappy metal basher I couldn't even touch a 3 board with 455lbs.I won't lie getting to touch in a shirt is the most difficult thing I ever seen, however its just a partial lift with a spot.

The problem with what you said is you could hit 1900lbs total raw, but the bottom line is you didn't. I am not saying you can not, or that your not strong. But using I got injured is just an excuse. That is like me saying well when I got injured if I would have jumped into gear and worked the hell out of it I could get a 1900lbs total, but 1. I didn't and 2. its not that easy to just break in gear as you can agree with.

I pulled possibly herniated an adominal muscle in my stomach at 230lbs bw range squatting 475lbs for reps and had issues squating over 4plates for 6months, paranoid to get under a bar, and everytime I locked out 600lbs on the deadlift (for a year+) after I had rehabed it I caught nasty cramps in the injured area.

My best squat was 515(gym)525(meet), my best deadlift was 605(meet)629(gym. I put about 90lbs on my front squat and zombie squats in just a few months, so I know I could have squated 550-575 and pulled 650lbs maybe even 700lbs if I didn't get injured but I did get injured, and I had to work hard to fix my injuries.

Disclaimer: Like I said I am not trying to knock you or your accomplishments or limit your potential but I am not saying BODYBYGAMMA = RAW front and JBYRD = GEARED front, what I am saying is

Nothing or no-one is going to say is going to change my views or the facts on gear and how it ruined lifting: i,e: how guys like Tate, Simmons and Bell who can't hold a candle to guys like Coan are spewing out raw training tips and trying to re-invent the wheel when there best geared lifts of the WESTSIDE methods aren't even that impressive in comparison to some of the raw lifters out

Geared lifter's and questiontable #'s
Dave Tate - 2,205 total
Mark Bell - 2304 lb
Louie Simmions - 1,850
Chuck vogelpohl - 2355 *left westside*
-------------------------------------
exception possibly -(after leaving supertraining)
Scott Cartwright - 2104*raw think geared was 2600's ish.

VS

Raw
Andrey Belyaev- 2,028
Mike Tuscherer- 2044
Shalaei - 2055
Ellis - 2060
Hudoyarow - 2121
Kutroff - 2126
Lilliebridge - 2132
Moore- 2160
Konstantinovs - 2171
Moser- 2204
Efferding - 2221~
Magnusson - 2297
Logason - 2258
Pertas -2323
Malanichev -2357

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Old school (minimal if any gear) lifters totals

Kirk Karwoski - 2309lbs
Ed Coan - 2463 lbs

[Bodybygamma]

Kirk Karwoski - Squat - YouTube

Kirk Karwoski - Squat - YouTube

[J_Byrd]

Want to start another thread? Conversation is fine, I just feel bad we hijacked this thread.

[Beverly McD]

I've seen some extremely impressive lifters on the platform, both geared and not geared, and tested and non-tested. Most of them have two things in common. They are very coachable, and they aren't afraid of hard work.

[ehubbard]

Tony, you really have gone off the deep end.

When you say what you could or would have done, when you have never done it, sounds ridiculous. Your best lifts are what they are, period. Everyone gets injured when you reach a certain level so don't use that as an excuse. Just wait till your old and decrepit like me. A little lesson here as well, Beverly is and has been very active in powerlifting for many years. She puts meets on and promotes the sport. Something which you seem to be doing the opposite of.

[SeventySeven]

Raw or geared, natural or enhanced...neither of these factors matter. You get up on the platform and break records and win, you have paid your dues and deserve the respect.