Awesome Strength without AAS?

[BendtheBar]

Anabolics: Possible To Be Awesome Without Them? - YouTube

Anabolics: Possible To Be Awesome Without Them? - YouTube

[DanB]

Who is this guy? Would like to hear more of what he has to say. Interesting guy, speaks sense.

[IronWill]

Originally Posted by DanB

Who is this guy? Would like to hear more of what he has to say. Interesting guy, speaks sense.

Clint Darden @ clintdarden.com

When he says that the long timers have not been abusing anabolics, certainly he doesn't mean not using ?

[Off Road]

Sounds like he's justifying his own usage.

Top athletes don't "abuse" steroids?
Ya, that's because top athletes are probably the best responders.

He said he pulled over 800 while he was clean?
Doesn't mean he hadn't been using for a long time and wasn't just off-cycle. Clean and natural are two completely different things.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by IronWill

Clint Darden @ clintdarden.com

When he says that the long timers have not been abusing anabolics, certainly he doesn't mean not using ?

No, he doesn't mean they aren't using. Guys like Louie Simmons admit long term usage.

[BendtheBar]

I respect Clint's opinion, but I also want to share some food for thought.

I've met several top lifters who thought they weren't abusing AAS. They told me how calculated and safe everything was. Then they would rattle off a list of chemicals that was somewhat surprising. One particular lifter even remarked he was "enhanced to the gills." Another was using experimental stuff you would never hear about, even on AAS forums.

Is this abuse? You decide. Some will say yes, some no...

I know Clint means well, but I do know some lifters with borderline issues. The definition of abuse...well...is a debate in itself. I know a handful of guys right now that are using aggressive approaches that scare me a bit.

I think many people are smart about things, but this is a competitive sport. As Clint remarked, people who achieve are driven. I think it goes without saying that some of these people are willing to cross the line, though they may be in denial that the line was crossed.

[BigJosh]

I have very little personal experience on this subject. Having said that, I think 500-800mg a week of test and 4 week runs of d-bol is considered safe in many circles. And arguably it may be.

[Tannhauser]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

I've met several top lifters who thought they weren't abusing AAS. They told me how calculated and safe everything was. Then they would rattle off a list of chemicals that was somewhat surprising. One particular lifter even remarked he was "enhanced to the gills." Another was using experimental stuff you would never hear about, even on AAS forums.

Is this abuse? You decide. Some will say yes, some no...

That's the crux of the whole AAS thing for me. There's a lack of credible information about what constitues abuse.

It's really hard to get unbiased, fact-based information. There are studies that suggest even mild AAS have pretty nasty effects but how do you separate those possible effects fromthose of increased body mass, extreme diets,weight yo-yoing up and down, other recreational or performance enhancing drugs, etc etc?

We all listen more to sources that tell us what we want to hear, and lifters are no exception. If Dan Duchaine, or Bill Phillips, or the new generation of gurus say AAS are OK in moderation, that's who they will listen to. Or more likely, someone down the gym who sounds like he might know what he's talking about.

In general, I think lifters are generally in denial about the possible effects of AAS. As BTB says, everyone thinks he is being safe and sensible. They get their blood work done, and if that comes back fine, assume that AAS can't be having long-term effects. I'm not so sure.

[Off Road]

It is definitely a polarizing topic.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by BigJosh

I have very little personal experience on this subject. Having said that, I think 500-800mg a week of test and 4 week runs of d-bol is considered safe in many circles. And arguably it may be.

That would be considered conservative., more like an advanced beginning cycle. Usually first cycles are small dosages of test alone.

Strength athletes tend to take a more harsh oral.