John Kiefer vs. Lyle McDonald

[YoRR]

thanks for sharing steve

very interesting..

[Fazc]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

Over the years I've seen a lot of lifters find something that works and then take that ball and run with it, as if it was the magic secret. It's not uncommon from this point to see this magic secret reverse engineered. Ah, this is why it works. Study X and Y.

Yes, usually the best way to do it in my opinion. Results first, science later if the interest is there. Most lifters would do well to stop at results first!

Again, not saying this is necessarily what Kiefer did, but it certainly seems like a possibility. I reserve the right to be wrong.

Same, I don't know how Kiefer came to where he did. I just thought it was an interesting question relating to what we were talking about in the other thread. I probably should have put it there actually. People are on two fences about Guru's and coaching qualifications in the fitness community.

Kiefer has abs and abs are sometimes the best qualification! But for other guys like Lyle he has done the science. Both Kiefer and Lyle have had great client results. In some ways they represent two extremes we talked about in the other thread.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by Fazc

Kiefer has abs and abs are sometimes the best qualification! But for other guys like Lyle he has done the science. Both Kiefer and Lyle have had great client results. In some ways they represent two extremes we talked about in the other thread.

I was thinking about this the other night. It's something that plays a big part in overall acceptance, for better or worse.

As an editor part of my job is to screen profanity and hate speech comments on articles. Because I am constantly looking at feedback, I see the obvious correlation - the better your pictures look, the more excitement it creates over the information provided.

This is not to say that solid information without amazing pictures will go unappreciated; far from it. But the image can certainly works as an amplifier.

[Tannhauser]

Originally Posted by SeventySeven

I am not a fan of Lyle, i have never bothered to look into his methods with the way he conducts himself and the fact that he doesnt even lift(John does) has made me always overlook him. I am all about guys who wake it to the trenches, throw all the science you want at it, i am about the blood and sweat put forth to prove the science.

OK, but:

1) He did compete as a powerlifter.

2) What does 'he doesn't lift' mean? Presumably he does the lifting that's appropriate for his sport.

3) He's competed at a higher level in his chosen sports than most people throwing advice around on the internet. I think you're perhaps dismissing the blood and sweat that goes into training for events other than bodybuilding/powerlifting? 26K mile skating events don't sound too easy to me.

[Tannhauser]

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

My only reason for bringing fasting up is because it seemed from the article that Kiefer had tried several ways of dieting, but was unsatisfied, and made modifications. This leads us right back to the possibility that Kiefer stumbled upon something that worked for him, did research, and reverse engineered it.
.

It's an interesting one. I wondered if that claim was 90% marketing. You know: 'I used to be a FAT GUY until I ACCIDENTALLY STUMBLED across the FAT-LOSS SECRET that I had SPENT YEARS looking for.'

I have no evidence for that claim, but it's a very common marketing strategy to say that you had tried every diet in the book and nothing worked until MYNEWMETHOD (TM) ($89). That's not precisely what he says, but it's in the same ball-park.

He's a big guy with an impressive physique, but my guess is that he was already pretty good before CBL.

As an aside, he mentions that he's 6% bodyfat in quite a few places on his site. That seems an extravagant claim looking at his pics - I thought 6% was ultra-ripped.

[BendtheBar]

Originally Posted by Tannhauser

As an aside, he mentions that he's 6% bodyfat in quite a few places on his site. That seems an extravagant claim looking at his pics - I thought 6% was ultra-ripped.

With his degree of muscle mass 6% would make him look ultra-ripped. For his bodyweight (ballpark 215), 6% is only about 4 pounds of fat away from 4% bodyfat. I stated in another thread earlier this month that bodybuilders frequently tell me this level is completely unsustainable.

[TitanWIP]

Read the whole thing. This quote stood out.

all the stuff you’re prattling on about add up to about 3/5ths of jack crap in the real world.

[Roy1787]

Ok that quote makes sense. Does any of this really matter for most of us? I feel safe just raising or lower my calories a little if I need to.

[SeventySeven]

Originally Posted by Tannhauser

OK, but:

1) He did compete as a powerlifter.

2) What does 'he doesn't lift' mean? Presumably he does the lifting that's appropriate for his sport.

3) He's competed at a higher level in his chosen sports than most people throwing advice around on the internet. I think you're perhaps dismissing the blood and sweat that goes into training for events other than bodybuilding/powerlifting? 26K mile skating events don't sound too easy to me.

He has plainly stated he no longer lifts because " its just not for him" when he did lift he never seemed to have ever reached any success while lifting anyways. Marathon running can be impressive , but i dont see where that plays into strength/physique athletes. Lets be honest 95% if long distance athletes look like starving 3rd world citizens, where does that fit into body recomp? Im sure if they would learn to eat that might change.

I am not attacking your opinion this is just how i see it

[Tannhauser]

Originally Posted by SeventySeven

He has plainly stated he no longer lifts because " its just not for him"

Oh right, I didn't realise that.