questions about working the back ?

[BigJosh]

Originally Posted by abett07

what do you guys think is the better lift power cleans or barbell rows ?

Depends on your goals really.
Power cleans are superior for developing functional explosive strength. Power cleans require more muscle groups and parts of the body to work together to perform the lift, something that for sport, performance and overall strength development is very important.
Furthermore Rippetoe claims that Power Cleans are the Yin to Deadlifts yang. Meaning that the explosive lift of power cleans will directly help the deadlift.

Having said all that, if your goal is strictly to build upper back mass and strength, bb rows are the way to go. I am of the opinion that there is no better upper back mass builder. The rows are to the back as the bench press is to the chest. BB rows are also effective for upper back strength.

Really, when it comes down to it, these are 2 different lifts that I feel can't really be compared. They both serve a different yet valuable purpose.
That is just my opinion on the matter.
I will leave you with this to think about. In Bill Starr's book "The Strongest Shall Survive", he says If you could only do one lift, out of all the lifts, that Power Cleans would be the lift you want to do. I butchered that quote, but you get the point......

[abett07]

would it be fair to say that these are the top 5 back exercises ?

1.deadlift
2.barbell rows
3.power cleans
4.db rows
5.chin/pull ups

[Soldier]

Originally Posted by abett07

would it be fair to say that these are the top 5 back exercises ?

1.deadlift
2.barbell rows
3.power cleans
4.db rows
5.chin/pull ups

Definitely fair, although I wouldn't put them in that order if it matters.

Honestly, there are quite a few variations on the row, and they are all useful. I've actually found that T-bar rows hit my back even better than barbell rows because on BB rows I tend to start to stand up during the set. The back is a very complex collection of muscles, so you want to pull in lots of different directions and with lots of different grips to hit everything. Through experimentation you can find what feels good to you and make good use of it.

Here's the T-bar row. The key is to use 25lb plates so you can pull closer to your chest.


Another good movement is the chest supported row. This one is good to use after dead lifts, as you don't need to use your lower back to support yourself. Also, many of these machines have multiple grip options which is good.