Lean Bulking vs Bulking

[LtL]

I guess the title is a little misleading but where this thread has come from is a discussion I was having with Rich Knapp in the SB about how he bulks off season. What I would like to hear in the thread is people's views on (c)lean bulking where you are looking to gain mass in a very structured fashion vs just plain old bulking. My discussion with Rich centred around how far over show weight he would go and what the relative merits are of going 20lb's over vs 30 etc.

Keen to hear what you all think.

LtL

[Carl1174]

In my limited leymans knowledge of this I would say that I cant see the benefits of adding 30lbs of fat, v's adding 20lbs of fat, if it is not bringing much more muscle with it.

I think it is very highly dependant upon the individual. For exampl someone that is near their genetic potential, or older (as metabolism works differently as you age) would not see the benefits of an all out 'eat as much as you can' bulk as there is only finite amounts of muscle that they can build, therefore they would be better off (c)lean bulking, otherwise come 'cut' time they are just going to have more fat to lose and the chance of losing muscle is greater, putting them either back to where they started, or worse with less muscle.

Now if you are a fair bit off your 'potential' then I think you can aggresively bulk much more productively as OK you will be gaining fat, but you will be gaining muscle, hopefully, just as rapidly (well not AS rapid, but you get my drift). Plus if you are younger the body is more efficient at making muscle (i think) and so more of those calories will be turned to muscle, than someone 20 years older who may just gain fat. Then when it comes to cut time, as long as you do it slowly you can hold on to more muscle...

If you are older AND way of your potential, then i think somewhere in the middle would suffice, as you wont be as effective at making muscle, but as you have more muscle to potentially make you have more room for the growth if that makes sense.

Just my veiw, but i could be way off the mark...

Carl.

[Rich Knapp]

This was a great talk in SB. Yes I will be going back to bulk and will be maintaining 20 lbs of fat weight in my bulk. I will track my LBM so I know were I'm at and when I need to up my intake or cut back.
If you don't track and know were you are at you have no idea if what you are doing is working or if just your arm to mouth is.

In my opinion adding more than 20 lbs of fat weight over show weight (the natural pro BBer norm) is just adding fat cells that you will never ever loose and just that many more to shrink down when you want to trim down or get cut.

There is no way I will burn threw 20 lbs of fat energy in one 35 set work out and tap into muscle.

The body can only produce .5 lbs. of LBM in a week any more naturally is imposable.

[Carl1174]

Originally Posted by Rich Knapp

This was a great talk in SB. Yes I will be going back to bulk and will be maintaning 20 lbs of fat weight in my bulk. I will track my LBM so I know were I'm at and when I need to up my intake or cut back.
If you dont track and know were you are at you have no idea if what you are doing is working or if just your arm to mouth is.

In my oppinion adding more than 20 lbs of fat weight over show weight (the natural pro BBer norm) is just adding fat cells that you will never ever loose and just that many more to shink down when you want to trim down or get cut.

There is no way I will burn threw 20 lbs of fat energy in one 35 set work out and tap into muscle.

So does that mean whilst you have sufficient fat to maintain you through a workout your body doesnt start breaking down the muscle. You hear so much of the you're body will go catabolic after an hour and the workouts will be counter productive, as the muscle starts to get used not the fat... and that you shouldnt do cardio after weights as that will burn the muscle away too...

Carl.

[Fazc]

I've been meaning to write something about this for a while; in my opinion quite a few parameters need to be met before people have any business in bulking. Otherwise it will end up in just getting fat.

More to come, when I've had my tea.

[Carl1174]

In for EPIC thread....

*gets pipe and slippers and relaxes in a rocking chair*

Carl.

[Rich Knapp]

Originally Posted by Carl1174

So does that mean whilst you have sufficient fat to maintain you through a workout your body doesnt start breaking down the muscle. You hear so much of the you're body will go catabolic after an hour and the workouts will be counter productive, as the muscle starts to get used not the fat... and that you shouldnt do cardio after weights as that will burn the muscle away too...

Carl.

After a hour your natural growth hormones are shot anyways.
Most of them studies are also to promote a Pre W/O sup, and how many people w/o in here don't take a food source/protein with in a 2 hour window of w/o? Any more than 30g's Pro in this window puts you into protein syntheses for 4 hours (well past your w/o ).

You will go catabolic in your 8 hours sleep and burn more muscle than you will in a w/o. Even taking in a protein, BCAA or Luecine pre bed.

[LtL]

See from a powerlifting perspective when bulking I want mass. Lean muscle is important but even fat mass and bloat can improve my lifts by reducing ROM, increasing leverages etc

When trying to get up to my goal weight to cut for the 100kg's class, I have chosen to eat DIRTY. This is mainly because I do not have the time (I work a phone sales desk job and am a slow eater) to eat the number of calories that I need to grow if I go clean. This is, however, a temporary measure and the body reacts well to this in short bursts. If I were to carry on force feeding the CRAP that I put in my mouth over the past month, I would look like Jabba the Hut before you know it. As it is I have hit my goal weight and now plan on maintaining by not force feeding and eating a little cleaner.

Overall: know your goal and as Rich said, monitor the results. I didn't do pinch tests I just watched my waist line. In going from 97.25kg's to 105kg's in 6 weeks or so I have only gone up one hole on my lifting belt (goes directlt over gut) whilst bursting out of all of my clothes in the leg, arm and shoulder/back/chest area so I would say it was a success. If I were to continue to eat the same way for another 6 weeks as a natural, I dare say that the results would not be as favourable.

LtL

[LtL]

Forgot to say that with the added mass I have also seen an increase in strength levels which for me is the ultimate goal behind adding mass.

LtL

[MC]

This is something about which I need more knowledge. I am nearing the edge of what I can do as far as gaining muscle and, thus, will need a cleaner, more precise diet in order to minimize fat gains. My bulk has been successful thus far, and I have gained a fair amount of fat. I get worried from time to time about being able to lose some of it if I ever feel like I need to go into damage control.