Barbell curls versus chin ups

[Abaddon]

Originally Posted by Off Road

I don't think it is all about choosing the best lift. It is obvious that the chin-up is superior because it works a lot more than just the biceps and allows a greater weight to be used. But the barbell curl is also an important exercise and has a great benefit to other lifts as an accessory lift. Just like the bench press is a great lift but I wouldn't leave out doing a little extra triceps work, just don't go overboard with it. A little goes a long way.

Further simplified: chinups are a compound movement, and (strict) curls are an isolation movement.

Compound > Isolation. Unless a bodybuilder's mass all over is your goal... and even then, if you're doing it naturally, compounds still rule.

[Chillen]

The bicep is such a small muscle as compared to the rest of the body, and gets so much attention. In my opinion, the bicep/tricep of the arm are two muscles that facilitate (create) the movement of the larger/stronger muscles of the body. If you were to cut off your arms just below the shoulders, practically none of the upper body larger muscles would get worked.

So does it stand to common sense and reason, that if you work the larger muscles of the body through compound movements, the arms would also "have to" grow stronger/larger to assist the movement? Yes, it does. It isn't rocket science, at least in my opinion.

But, it also stands to common sense, that (dependent) the tricep/bicep would also potentially fatigue earlier (dependent upon the movement, where the larger muscle targeted isnt fatgued), and some ISO's can assist this at certain stages in ones program--dependent upon the problem.

[Shadowschmadow]

Originally Posted by Chillen

The bicep is such a small muscle as compared to the rest of the body, and gets so much attention. In my opinion, the bicep/tricep of the arm are two muscles that facilitate (create) the movement of the larger/stronger muscles of the body. If you were to cut off your arms just below the shoulders, practically none of the upper body larger muscles would get worked.

So does it stand to common sense and reason, that if you work the larger muscles of the body through compound movements, the arms would also "have to" grow stronger/larger to assist the movement? Yes, it does. It isn't rocket science, at least in my opinion.

But, it also stands to common sense, that (dependent) the tricep/bicep would also potentially fatigue earlier (dependent upon the movement, where the larger muscle targeted isnt fatgued), and some ISO's can assist this at certain stages in ones program--dependent upon the problem.

I'm an advocate of balance; meaning no muscle gets left behind. I'm not suggesting that the bicep does not need attention. I'm suggesting that chins are over curls because they utilize the bicep, as well as other muscles, with greater tension.

But you are right, that specific context of usefulness of isolating a praticular muscle is dependant upon different stages of training.

[Chillen]

Originally Posted by GT-R

I'm an advocate of balance; meaning no muscle gets left behind. I'm not suggesting that the bicep does not need attention. I'm suggesting that chins are over curls because they utilize the bicep, as well as other muscles, with greater tension.

But you are right, that specific context of usefulness of isolating a praticular muscle is dependant upon different stages of training.

If I had to pick ONE upper body movement, Chinups/Pullups would be the exercise. These exercises work nearly every muscle of the upper body (the core is stabilizing or doing its designed intention), and would assist me more in practial function in living life, than iso/compound curls would ever come close to. And, I agree too, balance is important.

[SeventySeven]

I do BW chins, then assisted chins...leaves my back and arms screaming.

[Soldier]

Asking which of these is better is like asking if someone who does curls will have bigger biceps than someone who doesn't. . .it's not as simple as that. I have great, shapely arms that fit very well with the rest of my physique, and I only do curls once in a blue moon, and usually only as part of a shoulders complex (I really like using a pair of dumbells and doing a laterall raise, then curling the weights into an Arnold press then back down for reps.). What I DO do is heavy rows, pullups, chin ups, dead lifts and power cleans, just like most of us here.

And usually when I do see someone curling, I'm done with my whole workout while they are still doing them. I think it's poor programming that gives curls a bad name, but I still find them unnecesary.

As far as what stimulates the muscle best, it's definitely chins.

[big valsalva]

An important distinction too is: which exercise are you talking about?

Strictly speaking, chinups use a suppinated or underhand grip. Similar to what you would use on a straight bar curl. Strictly speaking, pullups use a pronated or overhand grip. Physiologically, the biceps are best involved/activated using the suppinated or underhand grip. Therefore the most direct comparison can be drawn between the chinup and bicep curl. My humble opinion: If you HAVE to choose, then chinups it is. If PULLUPS are currently in your routine, then don't be ashamed to add some curls. Currently I'm trying to cover all my bases. I am doing chins and DB curls on my OHP day, and Wide Grip Pronated Lat Pulldowns with straight bar curls on my bench day. Once I can pulldown a significant percentage of my bodyweight for reps, then I'll jettison the pulldowns and start working on pullups.

Neutral grip pullups are a different matter. True, there is more bicep involvment than on overhand pullups, but the greatest emphasis is on the brachialis. Not a bad thing either. Probably do neutrals instead of EZ Bar Curls, if that's the way you roll.

[big valsalva]

Originally Posted by Abaddon

I recently did 2 chin ups. I weigh 150 kilograms.
Pinwheels it is.

You only need to do one to potentially save your life. You curled your bodyweight twice. You are a beast.

[big valsalva]

Originally Posted by Soldier

And usually when I do see someone curling, I'm done with my whole workout while they are still doing them. I think it's poor programming that gives curls a bad name, but I still find them unnecesary.

For the win! *Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding*

I couldn't have said it any better myself. Curls can be cool. Its the programming and overemphasis.

[Soldier]

Originally Posted by big valsalva

An important distinction too is: which exercise are you talking about?

Strictly speaking, chinups use a suppinated or underhand grip. Similar to what you would use on a straight bar curl. Strictly speaking, pullups use a pronated or overhand grip. Physiologically, the biceps are best involved/activated using the suppinated or underhand grip. Therefore the most direct comparison can be drawn between the chinup and bicep curl. My humble opinion: If you HAVE to choose, then chinups it is. If PULLUPS are currently in your routine, then don't be ashamed to add some curls. Currently I'm trying to cover all my bases. I am doing chins and DB curls on my OHP day, and Wide Grip Pronated Lat Pulldowns with straight bar curls on my bench day. Once I can pulldown a significant percentage of my bodyweight for reps, then I'll jettison the pulldowns and start working on pullups.

Neutral grip pullups are a different matter. True, there is more bicep involvment than on overhand pullups, but the greatest emphasis is on the brachialis. Not a bad thing either. Probably do neutrals instead of EZ Bar Curls, if that's the way you roll.

I think it also has more to do with how far apart your hands are. I find that generally speaking, the closer your hands are to eachother while on a bar, the more the arm muscles take over. I can do about 12 chins supinated close grip and 5-6 pullups pronated wide grip, but pronated with my hands shoulder width I can do around 10, and with my hands as close as the chins I can also do around 12.